How I Built My Small Business

Neri Karra Sillaman - PIONEERS: What 46% of Fortune 500 Founders Have in Common (And What You Can Learn From Them)

• Season 2 • Episode 18

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As the daughter of immigrants, I’ve often turned to my own parents’ story for inspiration, a belief that we’re all capable of achieving anything we truly believe in, and a reminder that taking risks is often the key to making meaningful leaps in life.

Today, I’m joined by Neri Karra Sillaman, who shares her extraordinary journey, from fleeing her home country as a refugee to building a global, multi-million dollar luxury brand, and teaching entrepreneurship at Oxford.

She’s a 3-time TEDx speaker and the author of Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs, which has reached #1 in multiple Amazon categories, including Entrepreneurship, Business Diversity & Equality, and New Releases.

Her work has been featured in Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, and she’s calling in from Paris for today’s interview.

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Website: https://www.annemcginty.com/

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Anne McGinty:

Welcome to how I Built my Small Business. I'm Anne McGinty, your host. As the daughter of immigrants, I've often turned to my own parents' story for inspiration a belief that we're all capable of achieving anything we truly believe in. That we're all capable of achieving anything we truly believe in, and a reminder that taking risks is often the key to making meaningful leaps in life. Today, I'm joined by Neri Kara Sillaman, who shares her extraordinary journey from fleeing her home country as a refugee to building a global luxury brand and teaching entrepreneurship at Oxford. She's a three-time TEDx speaker and the author of Pioneers Eight Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs, which has reached number one in multiple Amazon categories, including entrepreneurship, business diversity and equality, and new releases. Her work has been featured in Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, and she's calling in from Paris for today's interview. You can find links to connect with Neri in the episode's description. Neri, thank you so much for being here.

Anne McGinty:

Thank you for inviting me, it's really a pleasure. So, looking back at your childhood, what moments had the biggest impact on who you are today?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Oh, there's many. When I was 11 years old and we had to immigrate, we had to become refugees in 1989, alongside 360,000 Bulgarians of Turkish ethnicity, and having that very traumatic experience and sudden experience, because that day I had gone to the library, I had picked up books, and I come home and my mom tells me you need to go back and return them, we have to leave. And you are living this life as you know. You have a plan. I really wanted to go to the English high school. They call it Angliska Gymnazia in Bulgarian. I had just gotten in.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So and one day your life changes and it's very sudden. So that's one experience that had a big impact in my life because from that moment on, when I stood at the border and looking at all the confusion around me and together with my parents and my nine-year-old brother, all we had were two suitcases to our name. We didn't have a place to go. In fact, we were set up to live in a refugee camp which was set up by Red Cross at the border Turkish border and we stayed there for several months. And in that moment I made a decision. There were two realizations. One is my childhood just ended. I'm no longer 11 years old. And the second one is I need to get a good education and that's a very defining moment. And it's a very defining decision because education is what I do, Even when I think about how we run our family business, what I do, even when I think about how we run our family business, even the reason why I wrote the book, even why I have to. I want to go back to teaching, even though it's part-time, education is the entire purpose of my whole life and that's a very defining moment.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Of course, you have other moments growing up, where I come from an ethnic minority family, and one of the early feelings I'm not even going to call it a memory, early feelings is shame, because I knew we were different, we were treated differently. The communist government at the time decided to carry out an ethnic assimilation process where the names of Turkish Bulgarians were changed from Turkish to Bulgarian names and for months, even years, with my parents, I would run, they would run, we would hide, and we were not allowed to speak Turkish, we were not allowed to practice our customs, our culture, our religion. So you are, immediately, you have this feeling when you go to school that you are not like the others and, by the way, when we went to school, we lived very close together with the other ethnic minorities, which were the Roma, gypsies and the Turkish ethnic Bulgarians. So you already are in some way segregated and when we went to school, it was together with the Roma, gypsies and Turkish Bulgarians.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Like us, I did get a very good education, but you immediately know from a very early age that the feeling I got as a child there is something wrong with me and that was an early memory that I feel ashamed. I should be ashamed of who I am. My name is not right, my religion is not right, my culture is not right. My religion is not right, my culture is not right. So this is a very defining unfortunately a very defining moment. But I like to look at the gifts in every difficult situation and for me, one of them is that I think it makes me a lot more compassionate to the pain of other people and what they go through.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, you're seeing the positive in the situation, which sounds like a very heartbreaking one, and I think that that's also a super strength of immigrants is being able to, as you say in your book, reframe these situations so that you see the positive that comes from it. Yes, Can you take us back to when you then went from the refugee camp to Istanbul and what that experience was like?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So my father tracked down a relative who had immigrated in 1978 to Istanbul. He tracked her down, managed to get a phone number for her, but after we were months in the refugee camp he called her from a phone booth. I was with him and said Türkan, Yenge, Aunt Türkan, we are at the border with my family. And she said come on over. She opened her home to five other families. Like us, she doesn't have a big home. Also, none of us worked. We shared the same food. She shared her home with us, her food and her children, who today work in our factory. The daughter is our accountant and the son is our manager.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Her son bought me my first blue jeans because growing up in Bulgaria, in communist Bulgaria, you don't have brands, you don't have these fancy things, and my dream was to own blue jeans. And he took me to the street market and he basically bought me a pair of jeans, just right then and there, and I really cherish them very much. Or Nutella we didn't have Nutella. They bought us our first Nutella. And then, when we get to live with them, of course my parents start to immediately look for jobs. My mom started to work at a textile factory. My father worked in road construction, Any jobs that they could find they would take, and the Turkish government, because there were 360,000 Bulgarians of Turkish ethnicity who came to the border. They established something called assimilation. I don't know how to translate, but it's an educational assimilation program that you have to take. Before you are allowed to start the school they have to check your level, and we didn't actually speak Turkish like the local Turks do. We had a dialect that couldn't really be understood. It wasn't how local Turks spoke. So you go to school to learn Turkish, to really assimilate to the Turkish educational system, and after that in September you can start school.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

We immigrated in June and in September I was finally able to start school a little late. I actually remember that as well. I started about a month late and my parents eventually moved out of my aunt's home, but to a very rundown one of the ghetto areas of Turkey. We didn't have money to buy bread. Some evenings we didn't have heating. My mom burned our shoes, and shoes we weren't wearing anymore. So just so we can have some heating in the house, it was very challenging times, certainly when people come to Ellis Island.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

There is a famous writing that says I was told roads will be paved I'm paraphrasing here will be paved with marble. Not only were they not paved with marble, I was expected to pave them, that's right. And I had a very similar experience. So as a child, my grandmother would tell us, because we were not treated well by the communist government, our names being changed, not given the same rights as the local Bulgarians. So, my grandmother will tell us, when we go to Turkey, our lives will be amazing. All of this will be over.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Streets in Turkey are paved with marble. There are faucets, golden faucets, wherever you walk in the streets. She will describe heaven to me. And when we immigrated there was no such thing. I was shocked. I was shocked by the colors, overwhelmed by the smells, by the dirt, because the area we moved into wasn't the fancy parts of Istanbul. Istanbul is a beautiful city, but there are also especially in 1989, there are parts of it that are very run down. So I remember the shock of it. It was quite challenging times and I went to school with 83 students in one classroom sitting in one desk, but three or four students have to sit in one desk. We couldn't afford to buy notebooks for each subject, for each subject in my notebook. I had to really focus and memorize what the teachers were saying, and I think that's also like if I'm reframing that situation. It gave me good memory gave me good memory.

Anne McGinty:

What I'm hearing is that you faced one adversity over another, over another and it just kept on changing and you were forced to adapt and be resilient to come through. And I also was hearing that you had a lot of gratitude for very little. You say, a pair of jeans brought you so much joy, or a jar of Nutella. And it reminds me of my own parents' journey. My dad was one of six, and then his parents, and they would sometimes share one drumstick of chicken for dinner at night. But you you know your story with the burning of the shoes just to have some heat. It causes an emotional feeling for me just hearing you tell this part of your story. How did your family then go from first refugee camp to then Istanbul, to then moving into their own location, to then starting a fashion business?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Very good question. So in Bulgaria, when we were vacationing one summer, my father met a Turkish businessman. Actually it happened by complete coincidence and I talk about luck. In my book, the very last chapter and this is one of those lucky moments in life that you can't plan, it just happens. He heard us talking Turkish. I was actually singing a song. He heard me. He came over and said are you Turks? And to see a Turkish person in Bulgaria at the time is unheard of. It just didn't happen.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

This is communism. Foreign people don't come through and if they do, they leave immediately. But he was there when we were vacationing and he said to my father this is my business card. I make wallets and leather products in Turkey. If you happen to ever come to Turkey, you can come visit me. But that's like someone saying to you, like if you win the lottery or if you get to heaven one day, you know it's like it's just, you don't leave Bulgaria. It's communism, it doesn't happen.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So shortly after we immigrated, the Berlin Wall fell and that meant communism fell. But communism fell in Russia, in all the Soviet republics, and many people there were not allowed to become entrepreneurs. You are not allowed to own a business trade. None of that. The second the Berlin Wall falls. There is such mayhem in those countries. First of all, everything was state controlled and no longer is. But people also are no longer able to buy food the way they used to, because it's a big, major transition that's happening Soviet republics to Georgia, to Azerbaijan, to the former Soviet republics, basically because we come from communism ourselves. So we spoke Russian and culturally he felt this is a lot closer to me than being Turkish, which is ironic. You know, we are in Turkey but, like I was telling you, our language is a little different. Our customs are more of a Bulgarian communist, you know it's different and culturally we are a lot closer to Russian, former Soviet Republic, ukrainian type of culture.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So he goes to Russia and he sees opportunity there because he noticed that people were carrying their belongings in plastic bags. There were no leather wallets, no bags available, there were no super, like nothing. There were no stores available. We are talking 1990s. Wow, what? Yes, of course this is how it was. Of course this is how it was.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

And he says to himself if I sell leather wallets, leather bags, it's going to sell because there is nothing here. But of course he doesn't live card which, by the way, we had two suitcases and that business card and my mom, in the rush of when she was putting together the suitcase, trying to get everything in it was June she took winter clothes. So we all actually immigrated to Turkey with winter clothes in the middle of June and one of the suitcases was unfortunately filled with winter clothes because in the rush to leave she didn't take the anyway. But that business card came with us and my father went to him and said remember me, I'm here not to ask to be an employee in the company. I'm not here to ask to be a craftsman. I don't know how to make wallets, but I'm here with a business idea. If you trust me, like, let me try. You have nothing to lose.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

And he started with a handful of wallets and it sold very quickly. And he sold them the initial ones in the street market very quickly. And he came back and his idea was to open a very small store in the grand bazaar area of istanbul, grand Bazaar area of Istanbul, because that's where all the Russian, former Soviet, former communist people who want to start a business back in their home are also coming. And it was the biggest supporter of the Turkish economy. It's called the luggage trade. In my PhD I talk about this. It brought so much to the luggage trade. In my PhD I talk about this. It brought so much to the Turkish economy the number of there were millions, millions of Russian former Soviet Republic people coming through the border to the luggage trade area, to the Grand Bazaar area. What they will do is buy these textile, leather products, bring them back to their country, sell it and come back, buy again. And they brought everything back to their country in these luggages. That's why it's called luggage trade.

Anne McGinty:

Oh my gosh. Yes, I got so many chills in your story just from imagining your dad being in Russia and noticing that people were carrying their items in plastic bags. I mean, first of all, he had to observe that, recognize the opportunity, but then also, as you're saying, the luck of the businessman. However, your family did hold on to that business card.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Exactly. You know, in the book I talk about luck. Luck is not something just serendipitous that happens to you. What you said. He has to recognize that. You have to see it, you have to recognize when luck happens and take action on it. And maybe that luck is not going to be immediate, maybe it's going to be in several years, as it happened in our case. But open your eyes and open your horizon. And I think one thing about immigrants is they are what I have observed in my research they are very open to opportunities. They know things will not be handed to them, they know they have to make their own luck and because of that they are very aware. And another thing in my book I talk about cross-cultural bridging.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Something my father did was become a bridge between two different cultures the Turkish culture, russian, former communist culture, and almost a bridge between communism and democracy too. Because he's able to create this trade and at the time how he makes money is basically he takes commission of out of the products that he sells and that's that's basically how he starts to. When I say make money, we are not making millions, not at all initially, but at least we are able to move to a better area. We are now able to rent a better apartment, we have heating, we can go to better schools, and I was around the age of 15 at the time when this was happening. And this is when I come into the business, because I looked at what my father was selling and I said this has no branding on it. We have to create branding, but at the time, in former Soviet republics there is no such thing as Giorgio Armani, prada, versace I mean, right now there are sanctions and there isn't, but at the time those brands because it's so volatile to enter these markets no Western brands were in these markets.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So we created a brand and we had basically advertisement around it. There was a slogan all for quality, quality for you. I came up with it. There were ads that we developed with our distributors, and I will take the Turkish manufacturers to Italy, to the trade fairs. Basically, the idea was there are these trade fairs in Italy that happen every two years in Bologna, where all the big fashion brands buy their leather, metal accessories from, and they also started to upgrade the quality. But also I was able to see where the top manufacturers of leather products are, where the top manufacturers of leather skins are where Chanel, lvmh, kering, prada, where they why their skins from. So it was really starting from the very beginning and I started working with my mom and my dad and my brother was also in the business. Everyone is in the business. I mean, that's the immigrant story. Everyone is helping out everyone is helping out.

Anne McGinty:

I can imagine the joy that you must have all felt and the gratitude for even just what some over here would consider to be sort of like minor upgrades in your life. But you earned it and together as a family you created something and then work together to make it grow, but then also the building of the relationships with that businessman and putting it all together. I know in your book you share this concept that you learned from your grandfather about frying in your own oil, and I was wondering if you can explain what that means and how it impacted you and your family's approach to business.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Hugely. It still does to this day. Frying in your own oil if there are any Turkish listeners, they will know it directly translates to frying your own oil, which means to be self-sufficient. Make the most with what you have, and this applies not only to business. This can apply to anything you do in life. You have to stop looking outside of yourself but look within and see what is unique about you. And you know and I teach strategy. So if you look at the resources and capabilities, when businesses try to identify their sustained strategic advantage, they actually have to look at the resources that they have. And I think this very much applies to business strategy, because you have to see what is unique about you.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

What is one thing that nobody can take from you? One thing that nobody can take from you, what are the resources that you have that are your own and that they cannot be replaced? And, of course, this is something when we were starting the business. We almost had no choice. Because you are an immigrant, you have to look at everyone worked in the family business. But also that comes from the fact that we don't have capital to go outside and hire. We don't know how to raise money. We are talking about 1990s as an immigrant-founded business. Nobody is going to say to you yeah, sure, I believe in you. Here is a million dollars. That's not going to happen. So we have built our business completely with our own resources. We employed a lot of our family members in the business. Of course, we pay them. That's not what that means, but that gives you trust. That's number one thing, and everyone is very much on the same boat as you, working towards the same vision as you. There is something that you are striving for that you can create a better life for yourself and for all the other people in your life. My uncles worked as truck drivers. My aunt worked at a factory, actually also as a tailor. So all of this is not just for yourself, and everyone is working to better their lives because we are all in this together. To this day, we never raised any outside capital. We don't have investors, and this still continues in our business.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

I think there are also downsides to it. So you have to watch out. I'm not advising you should never borrow money. You should never hire outside. You know people who are outside of your family. Not at all. That's not what I'm saying, because there comes a point in the business where you have to, in order to expand and go bigger, you have to bring in an outside perspective. So that's a mistake. So you have to watch out, like when to make that decision, like the inflection point, because that's not going to also continue forever and ever.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

But one principle that I think is very important and something that I see with startups, because I work with startups at Oxford. They immediately say, oh, I have to raise money. That's number one thing. And I say not so fast, because this, in my opinion, kills the creativity. And if your business is not profitable, if you are not making, let's not even say profitable. If your product is not profitable, if you are not making, let's not even say profitable. If your product is not selling or service is not selling, you have to ask yourself why is that? And if you go immediately to raise money, this can create a blind spot for you. You are not going to be able to see what's happening in your business. So frying in your own oil has that benefit as well. It's going to allow you to very clearly see the challenge that you are facing and why your product is not maybe selling as well as it should, and the changes you need to make.

Anne McGinty:

And then you grow at a pace that is sustainable for your business.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Exactly. This is so important.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, the resourcefulness is something that I've witnessed with immigrants that I know or also in other cultures like. My husband is from New Zealand and I feel that Kiwis are naturally resourceful. The economy there is quite smaller than it is in the United States, and so they are forced to be more creative with their branding, to be better with customer service, to do more to get that market share because there's just not as much flow of money. So now, with Nerikara, your brand, or your family's brand, can you describe to us the level of success that it has reached today?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Well, today we are in business for 25 years and we made the decision to also produce for other Italian luxury brands as well.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

We produce for Prada and Miu Miu, and this is something that we take pride in, because our craftsmanship and manufacturing, our ability is outstanding and the brand is also.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Today, I have to say something that is maybe going to be surprising we have our factory in Istanbul, but I myself am based in France. I got married, I came here for a job offer, which was to be an associate professor at one of the business schools, and I became a mother, which also led me to make some decisions in my life, which one of them was that I want to pursue what is my true passion, which is education, writing, teaching, consulting, advising passion, which is education, writing, teaching, consulting, advising and this is what I've been doing for the last few years, and today the business is run by my family, by my parents. So there is a separation that happened, a very amicable separation and a loving one, and I think that was the right thing for me. And the business knock on Wood is still very successful and we employ 175 people in Turkey. We have operations in Bulgaria as well as in Turkey.

Anne McGinty:

You must just feel a swell of pride that your family has done what they've done over those 25 years, has done what they've done over those 25 years and especially given your beginnings and how much difficulty you faced. It's such a beautiful, heartwarming story that I know many people resonate with. I wanted to touch on a statistic that you mentioned in your book. To touch on a statistic that you mentioned in your book, which is that immigrants are twice as likely as native born residents to be entrepreneurs, and some of that I think listeners will have already heard and what we've discussed, but is there anything else that you'd like to touch on as to why that may be?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Very good point. So in the business literature they will say immigrants are more likely to become entrepreneurs, which is a fact, and of course the business literature attributes necessity entrepreneurship as one of the factors for that to happen. Because they immigrate, they have no choice but to become entrepreneurs. Their education is not recognized. They want to upwardly mobilize, they want a better life for themselves and they will become entrepreneurs. However, until pioneers, nobody has asked why are immigrants more likely to start businesses? That last, because that's another very important statistic 46% of Fortune 500 companies are started by immigrants, and this is a huge statistic. We have Nordstrom. We have some exceptional companies Tesla Okay, one of them, google. We have Procter Gamble. They are all started by immigrants. And Pfizer, moderna all started by immigrants. Today we have vaccine. We were able to have a vaccine because of immigrants, the COVID-19 vaccine. We owe it to them. Our computer is powered I start my book with that because of a chip inside it called Intel.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

The founder, one of the early founders, is an immigrant. He's a refugee, andrew Grove, and nobody has really talked about in the literature, and this is what bothered me almost like talking about immigrants as if they are powerless. They have no choice but to start a business. But I wanted to change the conversation and talk about immigrants from an empowered place, because that's, in my opinion, very rarely talked about. Place, because that's, in my opinion, very rarely talked about.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

We either think of them as some people to be pitied because they have to be deported, or they don't have the resources, or we think of them as people who had no choice but to become entrepreneurs, and that's not always the case. So that's basically the reason why I started to write Pioneers, because when I looked at those statistics, I was myself, even though during my PhD I've been writing about ethnic entrepreneurship, necessity entrepreneurship. These are concepts I'm very familiar with. Even myself, I had the blind spot where I didn't see immigrant entrepreneurs from that perspective. So for me that's something I want to emphasize They've started exceptional companies. They've revolutionized industries. Industries and their businesses that they create are more likely, statistically, to last longer than those who are native born.

Anne McGinty:

What do you think gives them that staying power?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

One of them is that they don't start their business thinking I'm going to get in and get out. I'm going to raise a lot of money, make as much money as possible and get out. So that's where business longevity concept comes to play, because in the book I also say if you picked up this book thinking you are going to make quick cash, it's not for you, because business longevity and the way I talk about business longevity immigrant entrepreneurs think about legacy, think about what can I give, not what can I take, and that's a very major difference. When they start their businesses, there is the idea of giving back, giving value, and that's the staying power. When they create businesses, they think about community, they think about shared value, they think about other people, employees, and that's the biggest difference. And, of course, other points. They reframe rejection and to them, rejection and failure doesn't mean the same thing as would to others. To them, failure is not failure. Hearing the word no is when it's the beginning of the conversation. It's the beginning of business, it's not the end. By the way, this happens to us as well.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

When we first made our very first collection, I graduated from University of Miami and I went to my father and I said, instead of selling the leather products of this other company, why don't we create our own brand? And we made our very first collection from the leather offcuts that our Italian suppliers, who also supply for Chanel, lvmh, huge brands but they would have a small defect or it was an off-season leather that they were no longer going to produce or use and they would either give it for free or just throw it away or sell it for very little. So the idea was we would take that leather, create a collection, and that collection was making mobile phone covers for Nokia I am that ancient because there was Nokia at the time, not iPhone that we have today and in those countries it was like a status symbol to carry your phone on your belt or to really have a phone cover for your phone, like that was a big deal. So we made these very beautiful jewel like mobile phone covers and wallets and belts very small collection and went to this big main distributor and you know, if he carries our products we are going to be in, the business will start. And he looked at it and I said I never heard of the brand Neri Cara.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

This is a huge risk for me. I don't really care about quality. I'm not sure. You guys are producers. Anyway, you can create a collection today, but I don't know if the rest will happen. So no, and we didn't let that stop us. For us, it meant we have to find a different way, we have to look for different distributors, and I think that's something that I've observed, and with all the immigrant entrepreneurs I interviewed and studied. To them, no doesn't mean no. It's the beginning of conversation, it's the beginning of negotiation, it's the beginning of business.

Anne McGinty:

These stories are so inspirational. I mean you're saying that a closed door is not a closed door, it's just a door or there's another one. Exactly, you just kept on trying. But also you found a way, like your grandfather said, to fry in your own oil, to have resources that you didn't have the capital for by getting the offcuts of the leather that was going to be thrown away anyway. I find so much inspiration from what you're saying and also, as we were discussing before, we jumped on the call. In a time when immigrants are just being so misunderstood and they're being viewed with suspicion, I feel that there is actually so much contribution and inspiration and compassion and leadership that has come from entrepreneur immigrants and I was wondering what you wish anybody listening in who doesn't maybe know immigrants or doesn't fully understand how much they sometimes can go through. What do you wish they understood more?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Well, they can only look around themselves and see the contribution immigrants are making, and not just by washing dishes at the restaurant. You know, often I think this is something that really I want to use gets to me when the conversation happens. But look at immigrants they are helping in the restaurants and they are our nannies and they wash the streets or wash the dishes at the restaurant, and, yes, that's true, but that's not what immigrants should be reduced to, and they are highly resourceful. It's the ultimate act of reinvention to be able to leave your country with nothing, to have to restart your life from absolute scratch, not knowing a soul in that country, and that takes exceptional amount of resourcefulness, resilience, hard work, integrity, and I think right now there is.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Unfortunately, immigrants are being used. The topic of immigration is being used to divide us, and it's done very much on purpose and deliberately, and that's unfortunate. That's really very much unfortunate, but I would invite anyone to simply open their eyes and see it for what it is. It's being used as a tool in order to divide us, and I know someone asked me recently how would you describe America in one word? It was in an interview and my immediate answer was hope and she said you really sound like an entrepreneur. And I said no, I sound like an immigrant. Because that's what immigrants do they see the positives in anything.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

There is a poem I use in my book we are everything Hermana because we come from nothing, everything Hermana because we come from nothing. And there is this reframing of a situation or reframing of a concept, where I see it as hope because I know, I know anyone and every American and I will say American because I'm talking to you at the moment, but I think this is happening worldwide People are better and have goodness in their heart and I know we are better together and we are stronger united, and I know people and anyone is going to wake up and see that. I don't know if it's going to happen in a day or tomorrow, but it is going to happen because I have hope.

Anne McGinty:

I hope as well yes, I hope as well that the goodness of people most people in the world are good.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

They are, they are yeah, and when I talk to people one-on-one, that's what I see, yeah.

Anne McGinty:

So we both know immigrant founders. They develop grit just by going through these hard transitions that they go through. But not everyone who's listening in is going to understand that depth of adaptability and the kind of adversity that an immigrant has to go through. So how can they still develop the same depth of resilience and adaptability in their own lives if they don't have that same hardship?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

I say this quite often you don't have to be an immigrant, you don't have to go through adversity in order to apply these principles that I mentioned in my book.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

And often we think resilience and I've written many articles for Fast Company, especially on the topic of resilience Many times we think resilience means you have to be stronger, you have to keep going, but sometimes resilience also looks like I need to take a break and asking for help, like I need to take a break and asking for help. Something I want to clarify when immigrants are able to have this grit, their superpower is other people. You are only able to reframe to create the kind of businesses you create or have the resilience because of other people. Businesses you create or have the resilience because of other people, other people in your business, in your life, your community, your family. That's why one of the main principles and, very deliberately, the way immigrants have created their businesses is based on community, other people. That's a very strategic act and it's not by accident that they, when they start to rebuild their lives in a new country, but also their businesses, they focus on other people.

Anne McGinty:

What do you mean by that? You mean they're focused on the development of the relationships with their team and distributors, like the strength of those.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Let me give you an example. So when Hamdi Ulukaya, the founder of Chobani, bought the craft factory the old craft factory and was going to start Chobani, he enters the town and he sees that everyone there it's like someone died. And when he starts to rebuild the factory, he starts to employ people who already worked in the craft factory and he starts to do it together with all the people in the town. So that's what I mean from a business perspective. So that's what I mean from a business perspective.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

And when an immigrant comes to a new country, they often lose the connections. They either lose their families or their friends. They almost come here with nothing and it's a very deliberate act where they will rely on other people, whether that's us finding a long-lost relative who opened their home to us, whether it's finding the business card of a person and look for a business opportunity, or whether, when we start our company and we start to bring in all of our family members together, there is a togetherness, there is a focus on community, on other people, and that gives you incredible strength when your business goes into trouble. That again gives you a lift, gives you a boost, because they can either say to you okay, I know you are going through a hard time. I am here for you and let's look for solution together. Or maybe that's not a good path you are going to take. Whether it's in business or life, you need other people, and that's the biggest factor your community, friends, other people in your life.

Anne McGinty:

Do you notice this when you consult with other companies, the difference between the approach in developing that community with, say, chobani's founder, versus another company where you may go in? And there is a lot of talk about developing team culture and you hear human resource departments are very focused on trying to support the mental health of their team. But what I'm asking is is the approach different from what the Chobani founder did to what you see when it's being rolled out by a human resource department?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Such a good point and I talk about it in the book Authenticity. So this is the difference when you do it because you have to or the HR tells you or because a consultant told you, versus it comes from your heart and that's a real value. It comes from why you do that business. Value, it comes from why you do that business. So that's the difference. And at the end of each chapter I ended it with practical advice for leaders to follow.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

One of them that I was like I can't repeat, I can't say authenticity again, but this is so important. So how do you establish that? You have to ask yourself and that was the second principle about identifying your values and what matters to you. This is so important for you to be authentic and to say what matters to me as a business, where am I failing short? What can I do better? And doing things. And sometimes to say you know, I'm not sure if this is going to work and I don't know if this is the right path for me, but I would like to try this approach. And when you come from that place of authenticity, the result is different.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, that's. That is. What I was wondering is just, and it is, you're right, it's authenticity, it's real compassion for others. Yes, so just to start wrapping up here, cause I know we're up against the clock, what advice would you give to a young person right now, someone growing up with limited means, who aspires to start their own business? What advice would you give them?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Trust your crazy idea. It's written also on the desk of Noubara Feyyan, the founder of Moderna, who comes from an Armenian-Lebanese family. He immigrated to the US when he was a child. My advice will be trust your vision, trust your crazy idea, because I know it worked for me. It worked for millions of others, and it may sound unattainable at the time when I stood at the border and I had the idea I want to get that idea.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

I had the vision and I made a decision I need to get a good education. That really was my North Star. That pulled me through very challenging situations, from being bullied at school to not feeling good enough about myself. I knew my destination was that mythical education and I did reach it, which I did end up going to my dream school, which was doing a PhD at Cambridge, and I feel incredibly fortunate. But I also faced many failures in that journey. I failed to get into the Turkish university. I did fail exams too. It's not like I had this perfect path that led me to that vision. No, but I trusted my crazy idea and eventually I trusted that we are going to have a successful business. So trust your crazy idea. You may have detours and things may happen. That can look like failure and rejection and you will have many doors slam at your face but know where you are going and that you are going to get there.

Anne McGinty:

That vision, to see where you want to go and to see it happening. It's so important. I believe it really works as well. So, just as a final question here and I imagine that you have a lot of life wisdom to give so what life wisdom would you give to anyone who is entering or graduating from college right now?

Neri Karra Sillaman:

Well, I just spoke at my alma mater at University of Miami and I think I gave them a similar advice that to trust, because in the end, you are going to get there. You are going to get there.

Anne McGinty:

Neri, this has been such an inspiring conversation. I admire your story so much. I believe you are an inspiration for anybody who is going to listen and I really appreciate you sharing vulnerably parts of your story which are just. They're really incredible.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

So thank you talking to you and before we even started our conversation. I know you have such a compassionate heart, and because of your parents' background as well. Yeah, I know you understood me and I really appreciate being here.

Anne McGinty:

Well, and, as I had mentioned to you before, we jumped on just reading elements of your book and and really feeling your story. It was upwelling these emotions in me that I feel there is no, there's no one single English word to describe. But it is that awe for the journey, it's the pride, it is the sort of amazement, but there's also an element of pain in the heart at the same time, just because of how difficult it really was. But then I wish I could put it into one word, you know, but that that joy, that joy that you feel when you wrap it all up and you reflect back on it and just think, well, wow, I mean in my circumstance, I think if my parents could do it, anybody can do it. And in listening to your story, I think the same thing. If you could do it, anybody can do it. And in listening to your story, I think the same thing, If you could do that. Well, that means that anybody could do that, Exactly.

Neri Karra Sillaman:

And this is so important to have representation, to have an example and I'm not saying like I am the example, but I had inspiration. I had examples myself that I followed and gave me courage and trust and faith that I can do it. And it's very funny, maybe, but I listened to Oprah. When I came to United States for the first time, I discovered Oprah. I thought she was incredibly inspirational. After school, every day, I would watch her show and think to myself wow, she has such a difficult childhood, difficult life story, but she made it and that gave me incredible inspiration. And when people ask me today who is your role model, it's Oprah. I don't want to become Oprah, I cannot be, I'm not going to be, you know, have a TV show and so on. But she gave me inspiration and this is very important to have inspiration to have other role models, others who help you trust in your crazy idea. That's right.

Anne McGinty:

I'm very grateful to have met you and I hope you stay in touch.

Anne McGinty:

I'm excited to support you and the launch of your book. Everybody who's listening in it's called Pioneers. The Eight Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs. Thank you, neri, thank you. Today's key takeaways Reframe hardship, for example.

Anne McGinty:

Even in the most difficult circumstances, there is often a silver lining. Being forced to leave home and grow up overnight gave Neri a heightened compassion for other's struggles. So pain can expand your empathy. When you're in survival mode, no job is too small. Every opportunity becomes a stepping stone. Humility and hustle can coexist.

Anne McGinty:

In the chaos of modern life. We forget how rich we truly are. Clean water, a warm bed, a single pair of jeans these are luxuries to many. Gratitude can ground you and shift your entire perspective. Recognize and act on luck. Sometimes the payoff won't come immediately, but stay open, alert and ready to take action.

Anne McGinty:

Be curious when you're in new environments. That one idea, product or habit you observe might be your next breakthrough back home. Building bridges between cultures can spark new business ideas. So expose yourself to new places and observe the differences around you. The differences around you. Focus on positivity, meaning acknowledge and celebrate all of the small wins in your journey. They build confidence and momentum.

Anne McGinty:

In many immigrant journeys, everyone contributes. When you leave everything behind, you learn how to build relationships and community from scratch. You also learn to rely on or be the pillar for others. When you're surrounded by people working toward a shared vision, resilience becomes collective. So find, nurture and lean into your community. As Neri's grandfather says, fry in your own oil. This means resourcefulness is born when you stop waiting for external solutions. Look within. What do you already have that no one can take away from you? Build with that.

Anne McGinty:

The best businesses are rooted in generosity. Ask what can I contribute? How can I create value? Lasting companies care deeply about people, customers, employees and communities. Raising money prematurely can dilute your creativity. Constraints, however, can foster clarity. So build lean, test often and resist the urge to raise capital too soon when your product or service isn't landing. Don't panic. Get curious. What needs to change? What feedback might you be resisting? While some immigrants start businesses out of necessity, that's only part of the story. In fact, immigrants are more likely to create companies that last. 46% of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children. Think Google, moderna, nordstrom, intel. Immigrants are not victims, they are visionaries.

Anne McGinty:

Redefine rejection in business. No is not the end. It's often the start of a better idea, a clearer pitch or a different path. Rejection is simply redirection. Look at ways you might be able to turn waste into wealth. Neri built her luxury brand using discarded leather from high-end manufacturers. Innovation often comes from reimagining what others overlook. Is there a byproduct or wasted resource that could spark a business idea for you? Lead from a place of authenticity. For you, lead from a place of authenticity. There is a big difference between I'm doing this because I should versus I'm doing this because I want to. When your motivation is rooted in purpose, everything changes. So ask yourself what matters to me? What can I do better? And, lastly to me, what can I do better? And lastly, trust your crazy idea. Every bold vision looks risky at first. Doors will slam and people will doubt you, but if your idea comes from conviction and clarity, keep going. Trust your crazy idea. That's it for today. I release episodes once a week, so come back and check it out. Have a great day.

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Anne McGinty

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