How I Built My Small Business

Rachel Platten - The Untold Story of her Singer-Songwriter Journey

• Rachel Platten • Season 1 • Episode 36

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Rachel Platten chats about the business of being a singer-songwriter. Rachel is the Emmy Award-winning, multi-platinum singer-songwriter of the global sensation Fight Song, which has been streamed over a billion times worldwide. Stand By You was certified platinum in the United States, and Better Place has been a ballad at countless weddings.

Her songs have literally been anthems for millions. Rachel, modeled for Aries advertising campaign, has performed with Candlelight Concerts, New Year's Rockin' Eve in Times Square in New York City, and has been an avid supporter of a growing list of charities, including a dedication to Musicians on Call.

Her newest album, I Am Rachel Platten, will be released on September 3rd of this year and will give the world a glimpse into the other parts of her life, the real and the raw side that so many keep hidden.

If you haven't yet, I highly recommend that you pre-save her upcoming album HERE.


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Rachel Platten:

It's actually not coming from outside that matters. It's not what comes from praise from the world that's gonna matter. And you're gonna chase it for a while and think that's what's gonna matter, but when you get it, you're gonna realize that it's empty and have to go find it all over again on the inside.

Anne McGinty:

Welcome to how I Built my Small Business. I'm Anne McGinty, your host, and today we have Rachel Platten chatting with us about the business of being a singer-songwriter. Rachel is the Emmy Award-winning, multi-platinum singer-songwriter of the global sensation Fight Song, which has been streamed over a billion times worldwide. Stand by you was certified platinum in the United States, and Better Place has been a ballad at countless weddings. Her songs have literally been anthems for millions. Rachel, modeled for Aries advertising campaign, has performed with Candlelight Concert concerts, new Year's Rockin' Eve in Times Square in New York City, and has been an avid supporter of a growing list of charities, including a dedication to Musicians on Call.

Anne McGinty:

Her newest album, I Am Rachel Platten will be released on September 3rd of this year and will give the world a glimpse into the other parts of her life, the real and the raw side that so many keep hidden. If you haven't yet, I highly recommend that you pre-save her upcoming album. You can find a link in the episode's description. Before we dive in, please hit the follow button on your favorite streaming platform to help me reach more listeners' ears. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please share the follow button on your favorite streaming platform to help me reach more listeners ears, and if you enjoy today's episode, please share it with a friend. All right, let's get started. Thank you to our listeners for being here today. Rachel, it's so good to have you here. Thanks for coming on the show. I'm so happy to be here with you Anne.

Anne McGinty:

So can you take us back to when you first started writing songs and tell us a little bit about how your passion for music started Absolutely.

Rachel Platten:

But first I just want to tell your listeners that Anne is literally the cutest dumpling dewdrop of a human that I've known for 25 years and I haven't seen her face in several years and it's like literally the exact same and her smile is like humongous could light up a stadium and I just love you and I remember that you're lucky, right Like you're like. I remember you told me you're like I'm very lucky and I've never forgotten, that you're like I'm very lucky and I've never forgotten that.

Rachel Platten:

Well, I think you are pretty lucky too and you look exactly the same. Oh man, that's very nice. I do not, okay. So earliest memories of music is that what you said? Yeah, yeah, of a band, of like being in a band, or just music in general.

Anne McGinty:

No, like childhood, let's go way back.

Rachel Platten:

Okay, fun. I remember sitting underneath the piano when my mom would play classically, when I must have been really little. I couldn't reach the keys and I remember her foot on the pedal because I think that's what I could see, and I remember her hands above me playing and I remember how quiet and calm she'd get because she was, as you know, my mom she's adorable, but not, I wouldn't say calm and I remember that music always kind of made her at peace in a way that I wished that there was more of in the house. So music would like calm everyone down and like bring her it felt into wholeness, and music was always a really happy thing for me.

Rachel Platten:

I also remember singing and harmonizing with my sister and my mom when we were really little and I remember in the car listening to Michael Jackson and the Beatles and like, oh my God, I was like what was his name? Rafi. I think I've showed my kids that now, but I remember listening to Rafi. Oh my gosh, Rafi, yeah, Rafi. I remember that very young listening to Free To Be Me and you. I remember my first time putting my hands on a piano and my first time at my piano teacher's house and how extremely peaceful I felt. So yeah, music always evokes really calm and peaceful feelings for me and kind of a chaotic childhood.

Anne McGinty:

I remember you saying at one point how you and Melanie, I think we're like watching a TV show Maybe there was some music playing and you had like this big idea where you're like this is what I want to do. I'm going to do this.

Rachel Platten:

Oh, oh, my God. Okay, it wasn't that, but it was. I was at a you do remember this, because I was dating a guy that we both know, whose name I will not mention, and I went with him to a football game, I think in Massachusetts, and we were sitting there and at the halftime show an artist came out I forget who now, maybe Faith Hill or something like that and it came out and sang at the halftime show for the Patriots game and I looked at him and I was like that's what I'm going to do. And he looked at me like I was absolutely insane. He was like what are you talking about? You don't write music, you're not in a band, you don't do anything close to that. How are you going to do that? And I was so pissed off and so hurt that he didn't believe in me when I saw very clearly that that was what I was going to do.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, nobody should ever shoot down anybody's dreams.

Rachel Platten:

Oh he's a jerk. No, he's fine. I'm sure he's a lovely man now.

Anne McGinty:

So when did you start actually playing music in front of people and looking for venues for gigs?

Rachel Platten:

Well, the two are very different. Playing music in front of people maybe my first time was my piano recital when I was six or seven or something, or choir, but my own music in front of people. I think it wasn't until I was in college, my junior year of college. When I got back from no way college, my junior year of college when I got back from no way.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, I never did it. When I was growing up, I was never writing songs in bands and I remember going away to Trinidad, having that experience I think I told you all about, and then coming back and being like, okay, this is what I want to do. But it was a big change. I wasn't doing that. I think I played with Tom Jewett's band. Do you remember Tom? Oh yeah, brian's band, what were they called? I can't remember After Midnight. No, no, that's my, that's actually my producer's old band.

Anne McGinty:

I can't remember, but I took the picture of the front of their album and I tried to like make them walk down the street like they were the Beatles, like it wasn't done before. Good idea, you took pictures of me. I did. You know they weren't my best photos, but they were whatever.

Rachel Platten:

They were something. They were something, but they were cool. I mean, we had so much fun. We were just creating and trying. Okay, so that was senior year.

Rachel Platten:

So when I got back from my abroad study in Trinidad and I, like, was awakened to songwriting and music and my own band, and I came back in that summer, in between junior and junior year, I went to Berkeley School of Music for a six week intensive program on songwriting, I believe. And I went to a studio after the six week thing and recorded a couple of demos of songs I'd written in Trinidad and I brought them to the radio station. And let's just be honest, there was not a heavy music scene at Trinity. It wasn't like there were lots of bands, there was one band, one band maybe. And I went to the radio station and I was like, would you play my songs?

Rachel Platten:

And the person that I think ran the college radio station was a man named John Alcorn and he had a son named Antonio and John heard the songs and he identified like, okay, you're talented, there's something here. And he introduced me to his son, john, and his friend Luca, antonio's son, john, and his friend Luca. They were literally 16 or 15. They were babies and he's like they're in a band come join their band. And that was the first band that I ever joined and it was called Rachel Platten Band. I didn't call it that. He called it that Rachel Platten Band. He did it all for us. He got us gigs we played at like Black Eyed Susans or Black Eyed Sally.

Anne McGinty:

Yes, that's right. That's the main place where we all went right.

Rachel Platten:

Yes, yes. And then we played at that like really dive bar that we all go to party and drink. It was a total dive bar. It was five minutes from college and I played there all the time. So those were my first gigs, were playing at those really divey bars. And he got us opening gigs at like some theater, like some like 2,000 seat theater, because there were big bands coming through town. For some reason they didn't have openers or something. I don't know why it was Rusted.

Anne McGinty:

Root came through. I opened for them oh my gosh. And then you got your foot in the door. That's right. Yes, yes. And then the Trinidad piece kind of helped you get that too right. Yes, because you had, weren't you on stage with like 50,000 people, with?

Rachel Platten:

a band in Trinidad. Yes, so in Trinidad I started writing songs and I was interning at a record label there and they had the International Soca Monarch Finals. Soca is a mix of soul and calypso and it's like a special kind of music that just really Trinidad and a couple of countries play and it's Trinidad's own thing and like. So. The International Soca Monarch Finals were there in Trinidad and Port of Spain while we were there. It was around Carnival, I think, and the label that I was interning at. They had a band that was playing that festival and I forget why, but they needed backup singers or something.

Anne McGinty:

I feel like I remember the photos and thinking like oh my God, you guys are famous. Yeah, I thought.

Rachel Platten:

I was famous for sure, and we got on stage and my first time on stage was like in front of 80,000 people, 80,000 people, and I was lit up inside like this is exactly what I'm supposed to do with my life. How do I get the microphone in the front of the stage?

Anne McGinty:

And like what are the chances that you would have been in Trinidad and then gotten that internship? It feels kind of very some sort of magic there. Yeah, I agree.

Rachel Platten:

Well, it had to take something like that because, I'll tell you, I did not realize that music could be a path that I could do seriously. I didn't know artists. It wasn't like we knew songwriters or artists at Trinity. I didn't know any in Boston and it's funny because Berkeley was right down the street and yet in Newton, where I was, and Cambridge, where I went to high school, it was so much more focused on graduate school and serious education. It was in New England and there wasn't a drive for creativity around me that I saw and I didn't have any examples. So I really didn't think it was possible and I certainly didn't think I was talented enough.

Rachel Platten:

It wasn't like I was the star of every play or anything. I just I loved to sing and I was in choirs and acapella groups, but I wasn't like. No one looked at me and was like you should be in local theater. You're really something you know. It was just like I was good and so it was wild for me and I think it took something huge to move me to realize like this is your path.

Anne McGinty:

And then, after Trinity, you moved to New York and I remember glimpses of you trying to make a name for yourself in the music industry there. How many times like if you were to count it up and try to guess how many times did you face rejection?

Rachel Platten:

Oh my God, oh my God. I at least a hundred, at least a hundred like, maybe 200, 300. Like there were so many rejections from everything from I put up a Craigslist post or like ad when I moved there in 2005,. I think of like, hey, singer seeking band, or I went to random auditions. I was on Craigslist. That's how we found things back in the day. There was no Instagram or Facebook, there's no social media. I think MySpace was just becoming a thing, and so you found people through Craigslist, which is so sketchy Well now it's extra.

Rachel Platten:

My God, I would never let my daughter be on Craigslist, just like. But I would go to these random auditions in the city and like that alone I must have based like 20 or 30 rejections. I would go and audition for a band, audition for a project, audition for something, and then like, let alone. So those were like maybe less serious rejections, but then the rejections from applying to festivals, applying to things, I mean it's gotta be like a thousand in 25 years of a career, like I can't even name how many. There's countless.

Anne McGinty:

What advice would you give to someone anyone that's listening in who may be facing repeated rejection?

Rachel Platten:

Fight song didn't happen until 13 years after I decided that I wanted to try this career, and probably 500 to 1,000 rejections, and I was 33 at the time when it finally kind of broke. So people that think that they're too old or that it's too late, I mean I just wish I could say, like, but you're going to be that age anyway, so you might as well be that age and do what you love, right, like, if you're going to be all, right, you're too old. You think you're too old? We're both 43 right now, right? Yep, so let's say, like you just came to me and were, like Rachel, I want to be a potter and I know it's ridiculous because I'm in my mid forties but like, I would look at you and be like Anne, you have to follow what your calling is and you're going to be 44, 45, 46 anyway, so you might as well be 44, 45, 46, 50 doing what you love, like whatever.

Rachel Platten:

I think that what really helped me with that mindset was the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, and that's something that I'd highly recommend for anyone facing multiple rejections in a creative field is to really do that 12 week course. I did it when I was in my mid twenties and it really helped me kind of understand what rejection actually was and name it and put it like actually a face to it. She had us draw and animate it. Then mine was like a serpent and, like you know, hissing no at me and so that I could separate that from like artist Rachel in my heart, who was just going to do this because she loved this anyway, and I could say, okay, I know you're going to be there and honestly that has been my life's work is to separate out what's going on in our minds and understand that they can all coexist.

Rachel Platten:

The fear is always going to be there. The rejection feeling is always going to be there. I literally was crying about it yesterday and I've been doing this for 25 years and it's not going to go away. But I can own it and love it and say, yeah, I get you, come here, honey, I understand, I love you. I know why you feel that way. It's bringing up stuff from the past and we're going to keep doing this. We're going to keep doing it anyway.

Anne McGinty:

I love the idea of giving it a name, like giving it an identity, so you can separate it out from yourself and you can kind of talk to it as if it's like shut up, Like I'm just going to knock you down right now, be quiet.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, or talk honestly or talk lovingly to it, yeah, like I think that shutting it down is exactly what I wanted to do and what maybe I learned early and what I've learned in my old age, in my middle age, is more that, look, all of these are just unloved parts of us that need to be loved and they come from a place of trauma, probably, or repression, and so now I just love her and I say hi, baby, like you're really talking a lot today and you can be here and you can be on the bus, but you can't drive. So I'm I'm going to put you in the back, I'm going to take the wheel back and we're going to go on our way, but you can't drive.

Anne McGinty:

I love that. Yeah, so over those 25 years and I know that you know, if you faced rejection a thousand times, you might not be able to pinpoint one time but what has been the most challenging and raging or exhausting part of your journey?

Rachel Platten:

There was one that was particularly brutal. I had been trying, I think, for like 10 years. At this point I was 28 or 29. And I had a song called A Thousand Ships that was making its way up the charts slowly but surely, and I was an independent artist and that was pretty cool. And this is after, yeah, 10 or 11 years, and it was really exciting and momentum started to pick up and I got a real manager, you know, like not just a friend of mine who had been managing me before, but like a real manager who took me around to the labels and they said no. But then and that hurt, but I was like all right, I will always hear no. But then, a year later, I think the song was either still climbing or maybe when he took me, it was right at the beginning and then it started to peak. So then one label did take me seriously, and RCA actually I will name them because those jerks but it got so far down the line that they offered me a contract. I met everyone in the building, they took me around, they had me play for the whole team, I talked to the digital person and the marketing person and it was really like my dreams were coming true After 10 years of rejection.

Rachel Platten:

After rejection, my dreams were coming true. I was so excited I'm getting signed. Oh my God. And the song that had been climbing, just because songs do this. It just stopped climbing the chart. And that was right, as they were like thinking of signing me and I didn't even know they could do this. But they pulled the offer and my manager had to tell me after a show and he sat me down in my tiny little walk-up apartment in the village on Dougal Street. Oh my God, it was the most painful no that I'd ever heard. It was like it knocked me out so much that I it was one of many times that I almost quit. I didn't know I could get up from that one. It hurt so much.

Anne McGinty:

But then that fire right. That led to fight song Right yeah.

Rachel Platten:

Yep, yep, I didn't give up. Something that I love about me and myself and my younger self is that, no matter how many times I got knocked down and how brutal it felt, there was a part of me that could always get back up, and I think you have that in you too. We both are little fighters in our heart, right. We just don't really take. No, yeah, the resilience. I think you have that in you too. We both are little fighters in our heart, right? We?

Anne McGinty:

like, just don't really take. No, yeah, like the resilience, I think, yeah, the resilience, the grit, yeah, you have it too. I would love to know where it comes from, because I think that that is kind of what leads to success is if you can just keep getting back up again. I agree, I agree, it's literally the only thing.

Rachel Platten:

I agree, I agree, it's literally the only thing. But I don't know how to teach it. I know I want to teach it to my girls so badly and I see my two girls and I feel like I'm not going to name which one is which, but like one of them I can see hasn't, and one of them I don't think does. They're babies. I wonder if you're born with it. I don't know if you learn it.

Anne McGinty:

I think you can learn it.

Rachel Platten:

I really do think you can learn it, but it takes practice and like a willingness, maybe, to step outside of your comfort zone like all the time, I think you're right, I think you're right, I think you're right, I think it takes, and it takes a really good network of support around you, cause I had Kevin for almost like the majority of those rejections my husband now, who I've been with for 17 years and like he was just, I really think like a loving support system is essential.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, it is Right.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, like you cannot be knocked down and like it really ultimately now I realize has to come from me. No one now saves me when I'm feeling like that I have to save myself. But I think when I was young like 23, 24, and that was that really vulnerable those those knockdowns were really hard. I had that grit. But I also remember his love and his letting me crash into him and fall into him and just fall apart.

Anne McGinty:

I think having that village, having that community surrounding you, it really does help than just being a solo person, even one person that believes in you too.

Rachel Platten:

So that was brutal and it leads to fight song. So I bless that label now, like I actually take it back RCA. Thank you so much, great call.

Anne McGinty:

So now, as an established singer songwriter, can you give us an idea of just like what that actually means? Like how do you make your money? Like how do you? What are your different sources of revenue?

Rachel Platten:

yeah, thanks for asking that. That's cool. So for every song you divide it into the master share and the publisher share and you get paid on the master side if you own your masters and you get paid on the publisher side the percentage that you wrote of the song, and they come in what's called royalties, and if you are on a label or signed to a publishing company, they'll be distributed through that company and you'll get them, I think, biannually, and they are big chunks of money if you have big songs and they're small chunks of money if you have minor success. So that's where the majority of my income and my residuals will come from the rest of my life.

Rachel Platten:

From Fight Song, stand by you, better Place, I will always make money from those they bought my house. It's kind of incredible. I don't know if you or your listeners had heard about this, but a lot of artists and songwriters were selling their catalogs and still are. There was a lot of interest from the finance sector of purchasing artists' catalogs because they know that that was an annuity that would keep growing Over the years. The streaming market is just growing and growing and growing, so the songs will continue to make more and more money as more and more billions of people start listening and streaming worldwide.

Anne McGinty:

How would you even value that Because it's got such a long?

Rachel Platten:

tail. So they honestly it's a great question. I think they did it Like they said that the the purchase price that they're doing right now is purchase price that they're doing right now is. I don't think it is anymore, but this was at the height of those purchases of the catalogs were like 12 times what you make in a year. So 12 times is what they assumed it would make over a lifetime. So it was valued very, very high.

Rachel Platten:

But then my husband and I were looking around like well, if they think this is worth that, why would I give them it? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. I'm keeping mine. And there were moments that I would have loved a bunch of cash to get things and houses and whatever. But we held on to my publishing. I'm so glad we did because, look, it's just going to come in every year and we can count on it until probably I'm gone. I'm going to be able to give that to my daughters, depending on how long Fight Song sticks around, and so far it seems like it's evergreen. It's been 10 years and it's still streaming like crazy.

Anne McGinty:

Amazing. I feel like most artists would probably at some point regret that if they gave up their rights to their own music.

Rachel Platten:

I just think that that's like it's wild because I think if you're an artist it's different than if you're a songwriter. A lot of my friends who are just songwriters and didn't sing the song themselves have so many songs that they're just a part of like 30 here, 40 here, 50 here, and they'll sell their catalog up to now, the present, but then they know that they're gonna continue to write music and own that music coming forward. So I have a lot of friends who did that, who like like got you know $20 million or something for their catalog and they had like 10 hits, you know, with multiple pop stars and artists and that was amazing because they reinvested it into their music or into a studio or something. So I think it makes sense for like one kind of person. But for me ByteSong is that thing and it is me and I wouldn't want someone else controlling it.

Rachel Platten:

And like saying yes or no to sync opportunities 20 years down the line, like look, natasha Bedingfield's Unwritten, she's a friend of mine like is popping off again after 20 years and my God, well. And look at Tracy Chapman's Fast Car. Tracy Chapman's Fast Car, kate Bush's Right, yes, like they're all coming back up. You never know.

Anne McGinty:

You just don't know, you just don't know, you just don't know. And I could see Fight Song and all of your songs having a research. I mean, it's like they never left, but I do think that there is the potential for them to research.

Rachel Platten:

I wonder, I wonder who will discover it. I mean my daughter, violet. Her classmates just discovered it, not through me. I was trying to hide at the preschool pickup. I didn't want anyone to know who it was because I don't want it to be weird for Violet. But they found out on their own and like, and the kids she told me like the last couple of weeks of school they would sing fight song at lunch every day. I was like how is that for you? And she's like it's fine, it's cool.

Rachel Platten:

Nonchalant it's cool. Oh sweetie, I think it's cool, all right.

Anne McGinty:

So then the other side of your business going on tour.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, that's only one part, yeah.

Anne McGinty:

What is it like for you to go on tour? Do you love this or do you kind of dread it? Like what goes into preparing for it, and can you give us the whole picture, like who's on your team that's helping you to plan which venues to go to? And then like how do you decide when to go and how do you balance your family too?

Rachel Platten:

God, those are great questions. The balance of the family part. I'm still learning how to do it. I really don't know. I haven't gone on tour since having both of my babies yet I went on tour with my oldest, violet, when she was like three months to six months.

Rachel Platten:

We went as a family with our dog on a tour bus and, honestly, it wasn't the greatest experience. It was amazing in that I got to play venues that I'd always wanted to. I was opening for a friend's band, pentatonix, and like they were playing arenas and Madison Square Garden and like amazing venues that I'd always wanted to play. So it was hard. I had to say yes, you know, but it wasn't great for my mental health and it led to one of many like breakdowns and really hard times that I don't know if it would have happened if I had been home. I don't know if it was like something that, like postpartum would have occurred, but it was triggered by the being on tour and the traveling and the breast milk dwindling and like the lack of sleep and, like you know, being exposed to 20,000 people a night, 15,000 people a night, when I had just given birth three months before. It was too much. So I haven't toured since then. I've done shows and traveled, but I haven't done a proper tour.

Rachel Platten:

And we're learning that now. We're setting up the fall and we're trying to make those decisions now and I feel strong enough, I feel ready. Sophie is going to be three in September and Violet will be six in January and I feel like, okay, I'm good. I don't know if I'll bring them, because Violet's going to be in kindergarten and I don't want to take her out of school. But Kevin said we were trying to figure out, okay, if I'm gone for six weeks, what do they do? Well, maybe he'll fly them out every week on the weekends and come and see me wherever I am, and that will be an awesome experience for them. Or every two weeks if it's too much.

Rachel Platten:

That sounds amazing, yeah. So I think that's what we'll do for now, and then, as they get older, maybe I'll bring them. But that balance I don't know. I'm learning it. And as far as who plans it, it's my manager, my agency, which is United Talent Agency, uta. It's my agent and my manager who really are at the helm of that and making those decisions, and my husband, kevin. You know, kevin, he's running our record label, violet Records, and so he's also making those decisions. It is so cool to work with him. By the way, you work with Mark right.

Anne McGinty:

Well, we did. I mean, we sold our. We're fully sold at this point. So you are retired, so you are retired. That's why I've got a podcast, that is so amazing. I needed something to do with my time, like I needed my kids to see me work hard and challenge myself and push myself outside of my comfort zone, like doing a podcast is it's actually really fun.

Anne McGinty:

I get to choose who I want to talk with and I'm learning. You're a good, you're a great interviewer. I just love stories. You know that, like I'm so insatiably curious, like I love people's stories.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, you've always been like that, that's true, yeah.

Anne McGinty:

So what, like, who is on the Rachel Platten team? Like, so you have your band, obviously, how many members are in your band? And then you have PR, I assume, and makeup people.

Rachel Platten:

Well, you know what's funny about the makeup people? I actually don't anymore really have a glam squad. I did around Fight Song, as you can tell, today I'm wearing pajamas and you were like you look cozy. I don't really care about that shit anymore. I used to really care and think I needed to keep up with it. Like when I was first signed and everything was big and I was famous, famous and I was hanging out with Taylor and Milo, I was like, oh, I need to keep up with this world and like look a certain way and weigh a certain thing and get Botox and do that stuff, and like I don't give a fuck. Excuse my language, I don't give a beep anymore. I really I really don't.

Rachel Platten:

I feel like what's inside is so much more important. I try, I try and I do expensive facials and whatever. I dye my hair and I try and I go to the gym, but in terms of looking perfect or at the expense of my mental health, I will never do that again and I do not care.

Anne McGinty:

Thank goodness, oh my God, I'm so much happier. That is awesome.

Rachel Platten:

I don't have crap in my face like inflating my face or I don't care. I want my girls to see like this is what 43 looks like. You have some lines, it's okay, it's stories and it's wonderful when people do it Good for you, because it can make you feel happy. But I did it. I did it for like five years and I'm done. I'm done putting that shit in my face and like I'm done trying to weigh a certain amount. I just I just want to be at peace and I want to enjoy my kids and I want to put my energy into music and I want to put my energy into my spiritual connection with God and like I just so makeup team no, that was a long way of saying makeup.

Rachel Platten:

I don't have a makeup team. I do my own glam. I'm much happier doing it. And I have a band. Yep, they are kind of rotating because I'm not on a tour yet, so like people will be available or not. So I have like four band members, but Craig is always with me. You know Craig, is he the drummer? Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, for 20 years.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, yeah, I know he's been since the beginning. I know, I know he's my best friend. He's the beginning, I know.

Rachel Platten:

That's amazing. He's my best friend, he's the best and he's my drummer and MD, the music director. I have my manager, Jared. I have Kevin who's running the label. I have Jared's team Ashley. I have my assistant, Nick. I have publicity Bobby and Nina. I have my agency. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of people, there's probably like 15 employees. Yeah, I have my social media person, creative director, and then all their people. Wow, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot.

Anne McGinty:

This is the thing that I think that people maybe don't really ever think about as a singer-songwriter Like they might listen to your music but they never really give you necessarily the credit for the fact that you are running a business.

Rachel Platten:

Dude. Thank you, anne, you're right, and I don't think that I give myself credit for that, because it's a really different hat from the creative process and it's really weird to switch and that like having grace with the discomfort of switching. Sometimes I have trouble with having grace for myself and also giving myself props when I've been an awesome boss, like I did a great job last weekend at a festival because there was some turmoil among some of my employees, and like I just realized how well I handled it, how unemotional I was able to handle it, how how, like calm, I was able to listen to people, help them be heard and then help them work it out, and like, yeah, I'm really proud of how I've flexed that muscle and how I've grown in that roles. Thank you.

Anne McGinty:

You really should be and that, while balancing, being a mother is you are a superhuman. I mean, all mothers are superhumans. Thank, you. Yeah. So, as a singer, songwriter, what is the most meaningful part, most rewarding part of what you do and why?

Rachel Platten:

You know I told you earlier on I think I had been a little down the past couple of days and since, like recovering from postpartum depression and anxiety and all the stuff I went through, I really haven't had like deep moments of sadness like those, those cries that feel like they could go on forever. You know, like they don't feel like they have a bottom. And I had one the other day and I was wondering where it came from and what it was. And I started realizing that like there was a part of me that I thought I had fully surrendered this new music. I have a new record coming out September 3rd and I thought I had like fully surrendered it and been like you know what, whatever's going to happen, is up to God, it's, it's my job is to make the music and let it channel through me and then I need to release it. And I really thought, in therapy and like journaling and all this work, I've done that I've really gotten to a place of like okay, I'm good, whatever's going to happen. But there was still a part of me that was really needing to cry and be sad, that like, but I want more, I want more. I still want more. I'm more than like one hit. I want the world to know it. And there was a part of me that needed to be heard and like just cry. And I was in it for a minute. I was in it for a second. I was like really crying, and then to get myself out of it and this is to answer your question I did a lot of things.

Rachel Platten:

I had therapy, I journaled, I cried, I let myself feel it, I worked out, I did a dance class all this stuff, all my tools. But one thing that I did was read messages on Instagram, which I never do. I almost am never on social media because it doesn't feel that healthy for my mental health. But I went on to read messages because they're beautiful and I don't really get a lot of hate. I get a lot of, like, really vulnerable stories and I don't get to read them very much. And I went on and I read last night for two hours like hundreds of messages of just you know, your music is helping me heal I didn't commit suicide because of bad thoughts is helping me feel not alone, like my mom died, and it's getting me through I'm going through a divorce, thank you.

Rachel Platten:

And all of this pain of the human experience was being shared with me. And how on earth could I think that's not enough and that like I need more. You know there's this just like it's like my ego that thinks I need to be famous. But that's what matters, these messages are what matter.

Rachel Platten:

So that is the most rewarding part of my music, for absolute for sure is reading the individual stories of how and when I'm able to really take it in, because sometimes you do the thing where you're just like yeah, yeah, yeah, but what's the negative thing? Right? But last night I went in intentionally to let in the positive and not just skate by it and look for the next and the next. I let myself land with each one and really feel the person's story and feel their humanity and feel what they were saying about my songs. And it was so rewarding and so beautiful and it felt like my goodness, this is more than enough, like if I only touched these couple hundred and so beautiful. And it felt like my goodness, this is more than enough, like if I only touch these couple hundred people.

Anne McGinty:

That would be enough. Yeah, I am really curious to know where that pressure, where it originates from, or the need, or the want or the desire to be something, rather than to just like focus on the day-to-day process, like to find the joys of the day-to-day of what you're doing, like just the creativity, the community you've built on your team, the working together, like yes, have you ever read either tiny habits or atomic habits?

Rachel Platten:

Kevin has atomic habits and he's told me about it and I haven't read it.

Anne McGinty:

So there's another one that's out by BJ Fogg, called tiny habits, and it's it's interesting because it's not necessarily making me develop habits, but it is making me think about celebrating life's little moments, little things, the tiny things. That's great. You got out of bed, yay. You got your kids out the door in time, yay, yay, yeah. The importance of the celebration is what actually locks in that feeling or that habit yes.

Rachel Platten:

Dang, that is so good to know. I'm going to read that. You should read it.

Anne McGinty:

It's just a great way to remember that the goal isn't necessarily the goal, the huge thing, yes, it's the process.

Rachel Platten:

Yes, because when you get to that huge thing anyway, like I have, like you have, it just moves, it just moves, it's a moving target. You're never I never look around and I'm like, well, I did it, that thing I desperately wanted a year ago. I've gotten it and I have, I'm here. I did what I wanted and I like, did I celebrate it? I have no idea it even happened until I was looking back sobbing about wanting more and realizing, rachel, your wishlist was accomplished from a year ago. Look at where you're at.

Anne McGinty:

You thought that would be enough, oh my gosh. Look at 25 years ago.

Rachel Platten:

I can't even. That's actually mind-blowing to think. Look at what I dreamed of and what I have, and why on earth is that keep moving? And it is such a good point. And to be like I can't celebrate those things anyway, so I might as well celebrate the present moment. Things right Every day, every day.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, All the little things. I love that. You, literally you wrote one line of prose. I love that, Like celebrate it. I love that Right. So, knowing that this new album is coming out September 3rd and with what we've just been talking about about, just like these feelings of vulnerability that are popping up for you, Like how do you prepare for that? Because you know come September 3rd you're going to get no matter what, there's going to be mixed reviews. There always will be. Yeah.

Rachel Platten:

How do you prepare?

Rachel Platten:

for that, oh God, it's, so hard it's, I don't think it gets easier. It's like, oh, I mean, I'm in therapy two days a week, working really hard on that very thing you know, really trying to befriend that part of me that will always criticize me and feel like it's not enough and like I'm just trying so hard to love on her, accept her, accept what is, accept that it will be there, because I'm not going to prevent it right, Like that part of me that is going to feel if there's rejection it's going to sting, it just is. It's like you can try to prepare for the loss of someone you love if they're dying. But they say that you might know this with your experience. You cannot prepare for grief until you're actually I mean, I don't know, I'm not sure, With my Nana it wasn't sudden and she was dying slowly, but you know how close she was to me and like that grief it didn't really set in until it set in right, it's like I couldn't prepare for feeling sad With rejection. I don't know if I can prepare for it other than to just really love on myself in the time coming up to it and do that practice.

Rachel Platten:

This really helps.

Rachel Platten:

This feels like an antidote to it when I give myself love, daily love, and I know it sounds trite and cliche, but I have an actual, practical way.

Rachel Platten:

I do it. I meditate and I breathe deeply and then I feel my heart in my hand and I remember that there is a human heart, there is a life underneath my hand, there is a little brain that is working so hard to figure everything out. There is a heart that's beating. There is a stomach that's like there are organs in there. There is a life and I love on that life and I love Rachel and I love the human that's there and I remember that she's just a human and she's doing her best and I love on her and I say to her every day I love you, I'm listening, and I do think that that is something that can help me prepare so that when it comes, if it comes, I have a practice that's an inner pathway that's really been strengthened with this practice, this habit that's been strengthened, I think, and the wins that you're talking about. I'm going to start doing that in the days leading up. I think that's really smart.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, I don't know if you know who Jason Pfeiffer is, but he's coming up soon as a guest. He's the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and I heard him talking about getting hate. I guess there was a post that he made and he didn't expect it to be so controversial, but half of the comments were really hateful and it gave him that moment of kind of panic where he was like what do I do? And then he dug a little bit deeper to see who was writing the hate comments, and he found that a lot of them were actually writing hate comments everywhere, and so then he just was like oh, that has nothing to do with me, dang, that's so good, right. It's like maybe they just are having a bad day or they don't like their own life, and so if they see you doing something that lights you up, it makes them feel inferior.

Rachel Platten:

Triggers them. Yeah yeah, it's so funny. You said that I was just with a friend of mine this morning at a dance class that I started doing it's so fun, Anne.

Rachel Platten:

It's so fun you can come with me sometime and we were sitting there after the class and she was telling me about some hate that she'd been receiving on TikTok because she's an artist and she put out something and it hit a nerve and like thousands of videos of hate and she was like my God, like it nearly knocked me down and made me feel like nevermind, I just won't share my music anymore, but I same thing as him. She's like I actually started digging, which I've never done. I normally just nope, block, delete, not looking. But she and this guy now said that she actually started looking at who these people were and like the latest video that they had was like my dad doesn't love me, or a lot of them were with self-doubt. I'm having bad thoughts. I cut like and she's like oh, you're hurting, like who would write can you imagine you or any of your friends going online and posting a video like criticizing something? How insane is that?

Anne McGinty:

Like that's insane. Never I won't even write a negative review, me either. I have a problem with negative reviews because I think that it's like yes, it's so unnecessary.

Rachel Platten:

Right. It's like if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Exactly, why do you need to go on and like make a? It's actually insane to me thinking about like someone setting up a camera and being like yo. Have you guys seen? It's insane. You just want attention and you're not in the ring, you're not in the arena. The Winston Churchill thing, right Like. The only people who can judge you are the people in the arena with you. You know, not people in the stands watching the arena. So I think that I look to my fellow artists, to the people on my team, to very close friends who I know, whose opinions are safe, and I value that. I value my producer's opinion. I listen, but like my God, to random, like keyboard warriors.

Anne McGinty:

No, that's right, they're random. You have no idea who they are, what they're doing, no, so looking back and I got this idea from listening actually to Ed Sheeran speak but looking back, how have you failed?

Rachel Platten:

I mean over and over again, always. I fail all the time. I'm always failing Every time I write a song. Just being a songwriter, I mean you fail 90% of the time you go in to write a song. I guess it depends how you view failure, because if failure is the song doesn't get picked up or used or you don't have a successful song by the end of the day, then you could look at it as a failure. I think it really depends on your lens. You know, and I've written thousands and thousands of songs and only maybe 30 of them have made it onto albums. 40 of them have made it onto albums. 40 of them have made it onto albums. So like yeah, I mean I fail 99% of the time if you look at it like that. But if you look at it like practice strengthening a muscle, then I'm just getting, like you know, hours and hours, 10,000 hours of practice. So I mean I failed in that way.

Rachel Platten:

I failed in, you know, one way that I really think I failed is when I had like major attention on me after 13 years of anonymity, I might have lost myself and I wish that I had been able to hold on to what made me me and like hold on to loving myself and knowing that I was enough and I didn't have to change or compete or be different. So I think maybe it was a failure is a harsh word, but it was definitely something that I regret that I wasn't able to enjoy the ride more and just stay more grounded. It was so confusing but at the same time I don't know who could have done that at 33, after years of trying and all of a sudden intense fame and spotlight. How do you hold on? I don't know.

Anne McGinty:

I don't know if you could have. There's no way.

Rachel Platten:

It was crazy. So I mean, yeah, I don't know what did Ed say? How has he felt he?

Anne McGinty:

actually he gave examples of some of his first songs that he put out and he played himself singing and it was. It was pretty bad.

Rachel Platten:

Well, don't you remember my first album I put out in college? It was horrible Trust in me.

Anne McGinty:

It was great, oh, but you put it out.

Rachel Platten:

So that's your win, right Like that's your celebration. You completed a project, I completed a project, I put it out, I was brave.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, so if one of your daughters aspires to be a singer, songwriter like you, what advice are you going to give her?

Rachel Platten:

Oh, I hope that they don't. It's so hard. It's so hard. I would tell them to write what they don't want anyone else to know, Like write songs from their journals, directly from there. The earlier that they can learn to be extremely vulnerable in their lyrics, the sooner they'll win, Because what we do is we hide and we hide and we hide it until we like realize no one is listening.

Rachel Platten:

Why is no one listening? Because you're not telling the true story, You're not telling what's true. And so I would have them practice that vulnerability is like take those journal entries, take the things you don't want your friends to know, put that in a song. So if we're talking about songwriting, that's what I do. I also would have them really, really get good at their instruments and like hone their instruments, because the more like comfortable you are with knowledge of chords and patterns and styles and like you know the way you can play, the more genres you have to play with and find your own. And then I'd have them take intense voice lessons, which I've done for 25 years and like my voice has gotten so much better from practice. People think that it's you know lucky, or you're talented or you're not. It's not at all true.

Anne McGinty:

Like I've worked so hard. How many days a week are you practicing?

Rachel Platten:

When I have rehearsals five days a week I practice five days a week. I do an hour and a half voice lesson before every rehearsal because rehearsals are eight hours and I have my voice has to keep up. When I have a show, I do an hour voice lesson every day before a show. Every time I have sing in public at all, I do an hour, an hour and a half warm up.

Anne McGinty:

Amazing.

Rachel Platten:

With my teacher still same teacher.

Anne McGinty:

Yeah, an hour, an hour and a half warmup, amazing, with my teacher still same teacher.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, you were working. I know a lot of people say overnight success. They don't know your story.

Anne McGinty:

They don't know how hard you slogged it. Oh my Lord. Oh my Lord, you really did. And I remember seeing it from Trinity to post, trinity to the Utah like a 2am show, I think was something like that was. So many of those literally drove across the country in like a tiny little car with your drummer and everything stuffed in the back to play a 2am show the drums.

Rachel Platten:

The drums were hitting me in the back of the head so many times I did that.

Anne McGinty:

So just for a final question, and I ask everybody this if you could go back and talk to your younger self when you were in your early twenties, what life wisdom would you give yourself?

Rachel Platten:

Oh man, I think I would just give her the biggest hug. I really would just give her such a hug and just tell her how amazing she's doing and how loved she is and how the sooner that she could learn to love herself, the sooner she would feel peace and that she would maybe shortcut some of the chasing it from outside. And I would just say, baby, it's actually not coming from outside that matters, it's not what comes from, not the praise that's going to come from the world that's going to matter. And you're going to chase it for a while and think that's what's going to matter, but when you get it you're going to realize that it's empty and have to go find it all over again on the inside. So if you could circumnavigate that and just start right now loving yourself and just accepting yourself as you are imperfect, and all because I love you and I'm so proud of you, that's what I would tell her.

Anne McGinty:

That's amazing. It reminds me of what I interviewed Karan Singh recently. He's one of the founders of Headspace Health Cool and he was saying in his early 20s he would have said to set your own bar, kind of like, what you're saying which is quiet, what everybody else is saying, yeah, just do what you love.

Rachel Platten:

Yeah, go in. It's so much easier to say than to do right. But when you're able to really do that and even now, after success, after 25 years in this industry, 24 years in this industry, I still have to do it. It's a muscle I have to practice every day. It's like when you wake up and you have to meditate every day or do breath work every day, you think that at a certain point you shouldn't have to do it anymore, but nope, you have to do it every day and it's the same thing. You have to rewire that. What is success? What does it look like? Who am I proving anything to? No, no, no. Over and over, I have to go back. Nope, baby, this is about you and this is about your purpose and what brings you joy. This really doesn't about anyone else over and over again. So it's exhausting and endless, but it's a beautiful practice.

Anne McGinty:

It is. Yeah, it's something we all sort of strive to. I mean, I have to check in with myself all the time too. Rachel, I loved having you today. I loved catching up with you, I love you, Anne.

Rachel Platten:

I'm so proud of you and all of your success and this cool podcast. You're an amazing interviewer. It's fun. I love it.

Anne McGinty:

It's so fun. You're my girl, You're my girl.

Anne McGinty:

Today's key takeaways

Anne McGinty:

Rejection is inevitable. You will face rejection, but resilience and grit are key to success. No matter how many times you get knocked down, getting back up is what counts.

Anne McGinty:

In Rachel's words, whatever your age, you're going to be that age anyway, so you might as well be that age and do what you love.

Anne McGinty:

For anyone who is a creative, read the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron and consider doing the 12-week

Anne McGinty:

course

Anne McGinty:

.

Anne McGinty:

Manage your inner critic by giving your inner critic its own name and look so that you can separate it from yourself. Fears do not necessarily go away, but courage, resilience, personal growth and strength come from facing them. Build a support system and find a network. Resilience, personal growth and strength come from facing them. Build a support system and find a network group, or even just one person to be your loving support system, who believes in you too. Being a singer-songwriter like Rachel involves managing a diverse team In her case, a team of 15, including band members, music directors, managers, publishers, assistants, publicists, social media managers, creative directors and agents. This role requires not only musical talent, but also strong financial acumen and business management skills.

Anne McGinty:

Fame can negatively impact mental health, so it's important to keep your ego in check.

Anne McGinty:

Focusing too much on the end goal can lead to constantly chasing a moving target.

Anne McGinty:

If you tend to criticize others or yourself, take time to understand why you're doing so.

Anne McGinty:

Remember to be kind and don't forget the well-known phrase if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all.

Anne McGinty:

As Winston Churchill said, the only people who can judge you are the people who are in the arena with you.

Anne McGinty:

Aspiring singer-songwriters, consider writing songs directly from your journals and learn to embrace vulnerability in your lyrics as soon as you can.

Anne McGinty:

Finally, learning to love yourself is key to finding peace and validation, which must come from within. Accept yourself as you are and practice self-acceptance regularly.

Anne McGinty:

That's it for today. I release episodes once a week, so come back and check it out. Have a

Anne McGinty:

great

Anne McGinty:

day

Anne McGinty:

.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Anne McGinty

Host
Head Shot

Rachel Platten

Guest