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Subscribe on Apple Podcast , Spotify or other major streaming platforms.
If you have a comment, a question you wish I’d asked, an idea for an episode or want to say hi, I'd love to hear from you!
For inquiring guests, please keep in mind that this podcast is for the benefit of listeners and I am not interested in any “puff pieces.” Thank you for understanding!
Feel free to send me a message through my website, or through LinkedIn.
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Anne McGinty Host.
You know as a brand or as a service provider, like people don't buy your, why, as the brand or the service provider, they buy their own. Why Someone's wearing your logo on their shirt. What are they saying about who they are, what they value? You know what they're hoping to accomplish or be in life, or what problems are they trying to solve for themselves?
Anne McGinty:welcome to the 29th episode of How I Built My Small Business. I'm your host, Anne McGinty, and today we have Jacques Spitzer with us to share the secrets of how to create high performance marketing content that people actually enjoy watching. Jacques is the founder-CEO of Raindrop, an eight-figure, four-times Emmy Award-winning and two-times Super Bowl ad-producing creative agency that is also behind the top-performing ad in YouTube history. Their ads combine the best of entertainment and advertisement and have generated over a billion dollars in sales for clients, and he shares the formula in this episode. The San Diego Business Journal named Raindrop Agency as "one of the best places to work and Jacques as one of the most influential people in San Diego. The Los Angeles Times named him as one of California's most visionary CEOs. You can find a link through to his business in the episode's description.
Anne McGinty:Before we jump into the interview, there is one thing that I'm going to ask, and that is for you to follow the show on your favorite streaming platform. That is the number one way you can help me reach more listeners' ears. All right, let's get started. Thank you to our listeners for being here today. Jacques, welcome to the show.
Jacques Spitzer:Hello Anne, I am so excited to be here and big fan of the podcast, and it's cool to be on it now.
Anne McGinty:Well, it's so good to have you. Let's go back to the beginning. Can you tell us a little bit about what your experience was before you started Raindrop?
Jacques Spitzer:out what your experience was before you started Raindrop. Yeah, raindrop is unique for me in that I started it so young I was only 25 years old and I think because of that it allowed me a very unique path that hopefully someone out there will think is worth listening to and find inspiration from. You know, at the time I did not know what I wanted to do with my life not life like in some sort of like existential way, but I think you know I had. I graduated from college, I had gotten my degree in communications. I generally was drawn to things that involve communicating. I got my first job in news at a local news station and while I was there, I was only there for a year, year and a half, and people kept telling me you might be good at marketing.
Anne McGinty:I'm like I don't know anything about marketing.
Jacques Spitzer:And on top of that, you know, I think the biggest marketing company I'd ever seen was a local, local guy who made like the local pest control ads with jingles and stuff which you know. To me that was the dream I was like maybe one day, maybe one day I too can make a famous jingle. Which is funny because now, this many years later almost almost 14, 15 years later I still haven't really made a famous jingle. I've made some very famous commercials and campaigns, but not a famous jingle. But I will say that it was an interesting moment in time because I was literally interviewing people saying like, how did you know what you wanted to do?
Jacques Spitzer:And it's very frustrating when you're young because some people have the fortune of just like. My brother knew he wanted to be a physician when he was in middle school or early high school. For me, I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do and I remember thinking, well, it'd be really cool to be a newscaster, but I didn't really know what that meant, what that looked like. And then I started getting under the hood of that and I was like I don't think I want to do this, which was a weird place to get, because it's kind of a dream that you thought you might have. And then you get there and you're like this isn't like, this isn't my dream. It's a dream, that's not my dream.
Jacques Spitzer:And I think that it was interesting talking to people and they would say things like follow your dreams, follow your passions. And what I realized all these years later and the advice I gave to I gave to somebody yesterday, even a young member of our team was I said follow your curiosity, because it's how you'll find your dreams. You know, if you follow your curiosities, you'll find your passions. If you find your passions, you'll find your dreams. And so that's what I did. I just I followed my curiosities.
Jacques Spitzer:I started making videos and simple WordPress websites for, like, local trainers and for someone who's a massage therapist not even for the gym or for the spa, for, like an individual person. You know, like, let me just help who I can with their needs. And that has grown into what we are today. And you know, I've done a couple Super Bowl campaigns, we've done over a billion dollars in sales and have almost 100 team members here, and so it's it's been crazy, but it started with just the hope of helping people, like I was, like I think I can help people. I'm savvy enough. My youth is a positive thing. I know a little bit about social media, I know a little bit about websites, I know a little bit about making videos, taking photos, and so that would be the answer to your question of like where did this start all the way back when, and how it came to be?
Anne McGinty:Well, that's a pretty big step from making individual people's websites to now running a 100 person company and having your own studio.
Jacques Spitzer:What were some of those key steps in the middle were all important is one I found some early mentors that were really great and their advice, some of the wisdom that they shared, still just rings in my head today. I have one mentor who he grew a business to $250 million from. You know he was like a family friend. The two pieces of advice that he gave me that I've never forgotten was he said if you have your name in your, the name of your company, people always expect you there, and so I actually changed the name of my, my business, from Jacques productions to raindrop because of that. And then the other thing he's always said, and he still says to me today when I see him, is Jacques, you raise your prices. Yet and part of that is he was one of my first clients as a family friend and I remember he was like it was like a mass, like a two day shoot, multiple things. I charged him like $800, something like that, you know, and he was like I think he was like, dude, if you're not charging, I was like you're not going to make it, you're not going to make it, $800 shoots for the amount of work that we're like we're asking you to do. So that was an early mentor. I had another mentor who had, I think, three or four employees at the time, so he helped me with things like I had my first hire in healthcare, navigating that and then I've also been really fortunate.
Jacques Spitzer:About three, four years into my journey I met my business partner. I knew him from college but he had gone on to work at some larger agencies and he's two years younger than me and so I must have been, I want to say, 26 and he was 24 at the time, so we were still so young, but he had like two years of experience at bigger agencies and so he was the yin to my yang. We became business partners and so, like his ability to understand a lot of the operational elements, my creativity and business sense and networking, like all of it came together really nicely. And I had another person who I wouldn't they were actually one of my first clients that I wouldn't call them a mentor per se, but they had. They had a couple of partners and this is right around the time I was thinking about bringing on a partner and they had a successful business and I remember asking I was like, ah, like how would you handle this? Like I'm thinking about bringing this guy on as a partner. But I've been doing this a couple of years and he said to me he said, if this is the right person, you'll never regret being too generous to them. And I'm like, ooh, like that's okay, that's really good advice, you know, because I think a lot of times partnership is much like I mean honestly I partnership is much like I mean honestly, I have my marriage and I have my business partnership and they're both incredibly intimate, you know, because it's like in both of them we're dealing with finances and in both of them we're, you know, one side.
Jacques Spitzer:I have my wife and have my son and we make decisions for our family and our son and others like I'm making decisions that will impact people's families and their kids and their family. So it's like it's, you know, it's really nice to have someone that is in it with me and aligned with, like we have aligned values in terms of how we treat people and what we want to what we want for the future. And, of course, you know, I think business partnerships can go exceptionally wrong, especially when you're young and naive. So I think people get mixed direction on that. Sometimes they hear never, you know, be careful of business partnerships. I'm like, yeah, that's like going through a divorce and saying be careful of marriages. It's like, yeah, I mean it could be the best thing you do with the worst thing you do. You know if you make the wrong decisions. But you kind of have to take that risk if you want something great. And so my business partner, adam, has been like without him it would not be 100 person company, 100%.
Anne McGinty:Well, that sounds like the perfect partnership. Going back just a little bit, how did you originally make connection with your mentors?
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah, I think so. Like I said, the one was a family friend and what's interesting is he doesn't know anything about marketing. He just knows about business, right. He doesn't know anything about marketing, doesn't know anything about what I was doing. He was just like giving me good general business advice, and so you know I think that's something important to be aware of when you are doing something is, there are people who can give you really great business advice, but maybe they don't really understand exactly what you mean. They understand the product industry but they don't understand the service industry. Or they understand the real estate industry but they don't really understand you know what I mean. It's like you got to be careful about who you're taking advice from. That's just reality.
Jacques Spitzer:And it's weird, too, when people are already at like a place where they're so successful and they have a hard time speaking to like oh, but I'm just me, you know, I am the company. I don't have employees, you know. So he was great, but couldn't rely on him for the tangible things, and so I just found someone that was like a couple steps ahead of me. His name was David Oates and, like to this day, I'm just so grateful for him because he was just very generous with me. He would meet with me for coffee. There's nothing in it for him, you know. He just was like I want to help you and I've had some people like that.
Jacques Spitzer:I have probably three or four, maybe five people that will text me out of the blue. You know, hey, I'm running into this thing. I'm trying to figure out a contract with this. What would you do? How would you charge for this? You know, do you have a template that I can use for a contract? That kind of thing is definitely a big part of the reality, but that's how. That's how I found I just was looking for someone, and then I think you kind of have to ask directly. I think sometimes people are afraid to just say hey, I'm trying to figure this out. I really admire what you're doing. Would you be willing to meet with me, like once every two months, for 30 minutes an hour so I can bounce ideas off of you? And there's so many people that would be like. Of course I'd love to.
Anne McGinty:Amazing, and I love it when people who have had successes are so accessible too. It's just a really kind way of being to share your knowledge. So, shifting a little bit into the creative part of what you do, can you describe your brainstorming process when signing a new client?
Jacques Spitzer:Sure. So when you sign a client, you know it's like you want to get onboarded with their vision and their. You know where they're wanting to go. But it takes a little bit of like almost mental jujitsu, if you will, because I think, ultimately, people want to grow their businesses and I think sometimes people think they know how to do that and they do, and sometimes they think they know how to do that and they don't. I think the best partners are the ones who are open to saying hey, I know what I know. I'll tell you what I know. I'd love your input on where this could go or be. I know what I know. I'll tell you what I know. I'd love your input on where this could go or be. And what we tend to do and what I preach is when we bring in a client we start to look at have you ever heard of the saying people don't buy your what they buy your. Why Is that something you've heard of?
Anne McGinty:Oh, yeah, definitely no-transcript.
Jacques Spitzer:We buy. Everything we do says something about who we are and who we're hoping to become, and aspirationally. Or is this reflection of like? I'm this kind of person. I'm the kind of person who would eat this brand of beef jerky versus person. I'm the kind of person who would eat this brand of beef jerky versus this brand. I'm the kind of person who would, you know, drive this car versus that car or go to this place to get my massage versus that place, because I'm this.
Jacques Spitzer:And so we ask ourselves in this process is like, by engaging with this, whatever that brand is, what is someone saying about themselves?
Jacques Spitzer:And we start pulling at that.
Jacques Spitzer:No matter what we're doing it doesn't matter if we're doing photography, video campaign, a social media account we start with that fundamental question of, like someone's wearing your logo on their shirt, what are they saying about who they are, what they value, you know, what they're hoping to accomplish or be in life, or what problems are they are they trying to solve for themselves, and so that's that's how we start the process.
Jacques Spitzer:So it does start pretty heavy strategy oriented, which I think we used to do more ad hoc. It was just sort of like our instincts, like OK, why would someone care enough about your brand to actually buy it? Or why would someone care enough about your service to pick you over someone else? But then, as we've gotten more mature with our company, we've realized, like no, that's the first step, is like defining some of those things so that you can come up with better ideas. And that is our process. For, like, we bring someone on, we ask them yes, of course their story, of course their target audience is but we start asking ourselves these deeper questions of like what is the why of the actual person that's going to buy this?
Anne McGinty:That is so interesting and, as you were saying it, I was just thinking about that because you're right, we don't often think about our consumers. Why, so? Are you all just sitting around a table then and interjecting? Well, the person will be like this or that, and these are their values. Who is the one that is analyzing the mental jujitsu of the consumer?
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah, I mean. So we have people that are on our team, that are literal strategists, in our creative strategists, our creative strategists, our creative team, and I will say it's interesting. Let me give you an analogy and then I'll give you an example. So the analogy is you know, there was a point in time where we figured out that the world was actually round. You know, like there was that moment, that like eureka moment. It was a big deal, right. I was like whoa whoa, like we can sail around the world and like we won't fall off the edge of it, and it was exciting.
Jacques Spitzer:But even once we had that discovery, we still believed that the earth was the center of the universe and that everything revolved around us the sun, the moons, the planets. Like we were the center of the universe and everything revolves around us. And it's like it's kind of humbling to realize that like no, we're just, we're a planet that revolves around the sun and we're one sun in the universe and like in this case, the consumer is the sun. We revolve around them with our products, our brands, like anything we do. It's like they have their own center of gravity. We revolve around them. Most brands haven't ever thought of it that way. They're just like we're great and you should buy us because we're great the letters that we, instead of you, like to start an ad. Let's instead say have you ever wondered? They'll say, hey, we're this and we exist because of this, and it's like what you did the center of someone's universe. Like you know what.
Jacques Spitzer:I mean, like we revolve around them. And so the example I would give is well, again, we asked ourselves you know, why would someone be listening to this podcast right now? Right, I mean as an exercise. So then when you start pulling in that thread, it starts to get really interesting. Like, okay, why are they listening to this? Well, they're clearly someone who believes that if they listen to people who have done it, whatever it is, they've chased some version of a dream, they've been able, who have done it, whatever it is they've, they've chased some version of a dream, they've been able to monetize it and make a living from their passions. By listening to their stories, you might just find something that sparks or inspires your path. Right, and it doesn't have to be this huge thing, it could just be this one little takeaway, but you're not going to find.
Jacques Spitzer:I always tell my like my son, you're more likely to find something that you're looking for. It's like people that are listening to this podcast right now are more likely to find what they're looking for because they're listening to this podcast. Right, they are not in the passenger seat of life, they're in the driver's seat of their life. I mean, you could be doing nothing right now. You could be scrolling TikTok, but you're listening to this podcast. So I already know you're in the driver's seat of your life, like you're somebody who you're willing to take the wheel, you're willing to make changes, you're willing to hear from others. You know you're hungry and eager to like, stay curious. So when you start pulling at the threads of that, you start realizing oh okay, that's why someone's listening to this and so it helps to understand as a brand. So let me give you an example here. I know I'm doing a lot of talking and but it's like what's crazy about this is that you're already doing the hard work as a brand, like someone's already come.
Jacques Spitzer:But when you're able to turn the mirror back on them and give them those affirmations as to why they've chosen these things, it's so powerful because not only does it endear them more to what you're doing, but then it gives them the words to explain to other people why they do it Right. And so you turn everyone into a word of mouth machine that understands the talking points Right, and it's like that's what we're trying to do with all of our advertising. It's just okay. How do we create that loop so that people see themselves.
Jacques Spitzer:In what we're doing, we mirror back to them. This is who you are, is what you believe, is why this is a great decision, why you're great. And then they go and they tell their friends hey, I listened to this podcast, honestly, like it's something that I do while I walk on the treadmill or go for my walk and it's my way of like really inspiring myself, to keep myself accountable for like where I'm at in my life journey. Like I know, like, even if I haven't come up with my big idea yet, I know that I'm likely to find it If I keep digging. Like you give people the words to describe why they're interacting with your brand and you know, if it connects, it can be magic. And that's what. That's what we do, that's how we help people.
Anne McGinty:This is like blowing my mind the way that you think, because it's so new to me and I've never spoken to anybody who understands it on the level that you do, so I'm really appreciating everything that you're saying. You do so, I'm really appreciating everything that you're saying. So, with that in mind, what have been some of your most successful campaigns that you've run and, in retrospect, when analyzing the campaign, what do you think were the ingredients that gave you the winning formula?
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah Well, first of all, that was super sweet of you to say. I mean, you know, I appreciate you even asking these questions. Right, these are these men's soap company. They were about six years ish into their business. They were doing just under $3 million a year in sales, and so when they came to us, I remember the conversation. I remember exactly a couple of things that were really interesting. One was the founder had a really deep purpose and story behind why he had created the product, which was he dealt with psoriasis. He had skin issues and these other products were irritating to his skin. He started making it on his own.
Jacques Spitzer:It developed a small niche community of people that, like, really liked it, but it was like, frankly, the business was like it was growing. It was growing so slowly that, like it wasn't even fun anymore. It's like, frankly, the business was like it was growing. It's growing so slowly that like it wasn't even fun anymore. It's like man, I'm six years into this and like, oh, like, this is tough Right, and we had a couple of haas. One of them was we're literally sitting in the boardroom and we're like, why would someone buy nine? Like, why would they spend nine dollars on a single bar of soap when they can buy a 30 pack from Costco for like 1799, right, like, if we're selling soap and soap alone, we are dead in the water. Like we can't just sell soap, we're just selling soap, we are screwed, you know what I mean. It's just like well, that's not a, that's not a real good value proposition.
Jacques Spitzer:And where we landed after going through this branding exercise was that, you know, the brand wants to make men feel like kings in their own shower. That was sort of the like posturing of it. It's like, okay, you know, it was really interesting because we realized that, even though it seemed like a product that would typically be purchased by you know, men that were like fashionable and living in Portland, oregon, or something we actually saw from the credit card data, it was like blue collar workers, that some people were waiting for their paycheck to come just to buy the soap. You know, like they were like, really, this was their attainable luxury purchase for themselves. And we pulled at that and we created content around this that really took off for them. And they went from $3 million to $10 million, $10 million to $50 million, $50 to $100 million, $100 million, and then on and on and on, and that's where we started creating ads for helping them launch Star Wars and Marvel and working with NFL players in the Super Bowl. That trajectory was wild because it was. You just saw how not only can you change you know buying behavior, but you can change culture. You can get people exposed to and excited about an all natural product that they would have never been in the market for.
Jacques Spitzer:And ultimately, what we found was that we were selling joy, and it happened to come in the form of soap. You know it's like Dove doesn't, you know, necessarily give you joy in the shower. It's a great product, right Like I mean, I've used Dove plenty of times in my life right Like, it's just like being really clear about like what your consumers, why is in that purchase being really clear about, like what your consumers, why is in that purchase super important? And so we, we ultimately found that, like, people are proud to display these, these soaps, and they would, they would, they would be happy from the moment arrived in the mail, the way it smelled, and so we just continue to make advertising that would tap into some of those like insights to help grow that brand.
Jacques Spitzer:And then we've been working with Native. It's another all natural line of body care for the last three years and they've now, I mean they've really really been successful. We've leaned into this fun like centaur character and bathrode ID character, and it's really been been more around dispelling some of the fears, anxieties and myths around all natural products, getting people excited to try them, and they do a really great job with their R&D and their sense. Anyway, bottom line is is what we're noticing more and more is that we connect people's wise to advertising that people actually want to consume. Like when they get an ad from Native or from Dr Squatch, we want them to go oh, like I can't wait to see this. What is it? What is it gonna be next?
Jacques Spitzer:You know, when you create advertising that way, people consume the product, they consume the brand and they become, you know, super fans and they spread the news and the word. And what was crazy to me is that these things have become like Christmas and holiday products you know meaning. Like people buy them as gifts. Like it's kind of crazy to think about with body care. It's like that's not when's the last time that people would gift each other in a stocking these products. But so we've had a lot of fun with those, but we got lots of things that we're up to. But those are the two things that I think people probably have seen the most and obviously seen a lot of growth from.
Anne McGinty:So fun and I've personally seen that Centaur ad for Native.
Jacques Spitzer:Wonderful.
Anne McGinty:And it did make me stop scrolling. There we go. I literally watch the whole thing and I usually just, you know, scan straight through and I don't. So, speaking a little bit to that, how are you creating these scroll, stopping social video ads Like, what are the secrets and how do you keep the content so engaging and can high performance mark high performance mark there.
Jacques Spitzer:Man and you're asking the best questions. Okay, so it goes back to a question that you asked earlier, but then I'll jump off from there. Back to a question that you asked earlier, but then I'll jump off from there. So I want to give you an example how a company might usually think versus how we're going to handle, how we approach it. Usually, a company will put together a brief and they'll say here's our objective, here's the things we want to talk about, here's the places that this campaign will go. And so all we've really said is I want to talk about me, here's the things I want to say about me, here's what I hope people learn about me. That's literally all we said with a brief. And it's kind of crazy when you think about like that's how most of us approach advertising is like what do I want to say? Where am I going to say it? And so what we're reversing out in the way that we approach things is we say what do people want to hear about themselves by purchasing this? And then how are we going to earn their attention, to tell them this story, like in something like what you're seeing there with, whether it's the centaur campaign or anything else?
Jacques Spitzer:Our team of, like copywriters and art directors, are spending, probably collectively, somewhere between, on the low end, 40 hours. On the high end, 100 hours worth of time creating. What is this universal truth we're tapping into? What's this world that we're building? What is this? What is our reason to literally stop your scroll before we've written a single word? There is no script. There's no like. We call it concept and there's no script. Yet there's not like hey, this is how we're going to say it, because before we figure out what we're going to say, we need to figure out how are we even going to matter and get attention. So if we don't matter and get attention, what we have to say doesn't matter unless you have 50 to a hundred million dollars of forces down people's throats, like you know. It's like if you want that outsized return, you want people to remember it quicker, buy it faster.
Jacques Spitzer:You have to approach it from that standpoint of how are we going to, to your point, stop the scroll? Or even, if you get a television ad, how are we going to make it so that we live rent free in your head longer? We start with that fundamental question before we write anything. Then we actually write the scripts, probably about five to six weeks into the process. We've already set up our strategy, we've already done our concept thing.
Jacques Spitzer:Now we're going to get into okay, great, now here's what we're actually going to talk about, now that we've established, like, how are we even going to come into whether it's your living room, into your phone, in a way that you're actually going to pay attention to? Because if you're not going to pay attention, then what are we all doing? Right, we're wasting time, we're wasting money. So that's how you arrive at what feels like a crazy swing and something like a centaur. But I would just argue that the alternative is an ad that takes place in a bathroom, with someone going swish, swish, and it's saying 72 hour coverage, and you've forgotten about it. Like literally the second, the next ad comes on, and so it's boring, it doesn't work. I mean, it just doesn't work. And so that's where we found our success for sure.
Anne McGinty:So you mentioned the writing team starts working on a script about five or six weeks into the process.
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah.
Anne McGinty:What is it like once the writing team gets involved on that level?
Jacques Spitzer:They're part of the concepting too. After we have some strategic setup work, which the strategic setup is more robust as budgets get bigger and everything else right, like I'm not gonna lie there where it's like okay, well, sometimes we have five to 10 hours for strategy and sometimes we have 100 hours strategy. It really depends on the campaign. But the bottom line is is that we're still gonna go through the same process for anybody. It's just how much time and attention can we dedicate to it? You want everything you do to be successful and that's why you have a certain like we turn away a lot of potential clients that are like bummed that they can't work with us. But I'm like I just to do what we do well and what you expect. There's no cheap and simple way to do that. It's just you're going to get something that's half-baked that again won't be good. So our copywriting team they're the ones that are helping come up with the concepts that jump off of what we're trying to communicate. We also have our art directors that are now in those meetings. We have even our production creative minds in that process being like, ooh, you know what if the lead person was a you know, a miniature angel instead of just a regular person. It's like, ooh, that's kind of interesting. How would we pull that off? Well, we need to do this, you know, and not just for the sake of being weird, but also just if it has some sort of strategic connection to what we're trying to convey.
Jacques Spitzer:We have a project we're working on right now for somebody where, literally, we're shrinking somebody and I was downstairs earlier today. We're shooting it next week and they were testing, you know what it's going to look like and be like, which, you know. Bless their hearts, because we don't want to, like, shoot it and then realize it's gonna be too hard, but they're. They're down there right now working on it again with the focus of yes, we're going to convey a lot of cool messaging, but it needs to be wrapped in a way that I can't stop watching.
Jacques Spitzer:I need to know where this thing's headed and how in the world are these people doing this crazy fun ad that I want to learn more about. So that's where we start before we start writing things. And then we also, of course, write the scripts. You have to write the scripts. I'm not trying to make the script writing sound not important, I'm just saying most people go brief script and then they try to back into like well, this is why it's strategic and this is why people will care and this is why it's going to sell and, honestly, that's what we did to like the first seven years be more successful.
Anne McGinty:So you just mentioned before that you went downstairs to go and look at this shoot that they're working on.
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah.
Anne McGinty:So you have a whole in-house studio.
Jacques Spitzer:We do yeah.
Anne McGinty:When did that come into the picture? When did you start shooting everything in your studio and when did you acquire a studio space large enough to do it all?
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah. So after COVID we continued to grow. We went from one production team to two production teams or three production teams, you know, fully in-house. And a part of it was that we had so many shoots, that we were renting so many studios that it actually became a logistical issue, because I was like, okay, well you know, if their studio wasn't available the week we needed it, then then what, right now we're going where we're going to la like, how are we going to handle this? So there was just a logistical reason of like, oh, we need our own studio space. So we built out our own studios, studios.
Jacques Spitzer:It was like fall of 2021 and it just allowed us to be much more agile, because what's interesting is because we have element, it's like we can get a look that would, if someone wanted to build it from scratch, for example, we can get a look that would cost someone like $30,000 to build from scratch. We can modify what we have to do it for $5,000, right, like it's hard to explain, but in having an owning your own set builds in your own processes, you can just do things that you just can't do otherwise. I don't know how to explain it, but it has this constant return, where a lot of times we'll invest in a set more heavily than we typically would for a specific client. But we also know that like, oh, if we ever shoot something in the outdoors again and we need a forest, we have all the moving pieces to build a forest right and we can augment it.
Jacques Spitzer:You know we have two full studio spaces, actually three studio spaces. One is primarily more of like a kitchen set and we do a lot of photography there, and then the other two are just full studio spaces. We used to have like a main office. We ended up after the COVID just shutting it down because people weren't coming in and so much of what we can do either needs to take place in a studio or people are fine being on a laptop in front of zoom. So that's where the split happened and I like to come into the studio one. Just I enjoy being around and seeing the creative work, but it's also just I like being in the zone and being outside of my home. But a lot of people like working from home and I respect that too.
Anne McGinty:It sounds like so much fun. So at what point, then, should brands invest in producing this level of high quality, production value content, so like with actors and directors and these bigger concepts?
Jacques Spitzer:It's a good question, I think well, cause there's there's so many different ways to build a brand right, like we have some brands that approach us who have raised money and they haven't even launched yet and they want to like do it right from the start, and I respect the heck out of that Like for people that can do that great right Like not everyone's in a position to do that. That's a great way to start if you can right. So the other way to start is obviously can Right. So the other way to start is, obviously people will go and maybe they'll the white label product, which means they find someone to manufacture it, but they're able to like put their own brand sticker on it Right, and then they can pop up maybe a Shopify shop or get an Amazon going Right and like actually start getting it out there and selling it.
Jacques Spitzer:If it's more of that, like slower bootstrapped space, we tend to see people start to invest in higher level creative sometime after about, we'll say, like a $2 million to $3 million run rate, even if that's not investing with us. We have partners that we refer a lot of people to because we're like hey, they're not ready for us, but you do need support and you do need something higher quality. I think that's really where, when you start getting into, you have enough product market fit, meaning you are selling a product, you're getting new customers, like you have momentum there. But then you also need to start differentiating your actual brand enough to say, hey, like we talk about higher quality stuff. To me that's you know, you don't want to just sell the solution, you want to sell your brand.
Jacques Spitzer:I can't tell you how many times I've been on Tik TOK lately for Tik TOK shops and I'll get an ad for a solution, meaning you know, okay, well, this is a flavored type of sunflower seed, or or this is a hat that you could buy, whatever it is, and I'm like, oh, like, oh, okay, like that's available. But then it's like you could go through tiktok shop and you don't know really where it comes from and what's going to happen. Where you pop over to amazon and you plug it in, you're like, yeah, it's this exact same thing, it's just on amazon it's a little bit more expensive. But I, I trust amazon boom and I buy from amazon, and so I think when you start investing in higher quality, it is also a little bit of like I want to make sure that people want my brand, not just the solution I'm selling and I think a lot of times brands miss that because they'll be advertising. But it's for a solution, not their actual brand.
Jacques Spitzer:And if I convince you like, oh man, you really need to use an all natural toothpaste, well, there's a lot of all natural toothpaste. So if I go to Amazon and type in natural toothpaste, well all I've done is convince you to buy the category, not buy my brands. And I also say higher quality video and photo does convey trust. You know people trust that if someone's investing in their photography and video, that they're also legitimate and they're not just fly by night dropship, scammy type of stuff. I mean, we've all had the experience, I think, at this point, of buying something online that came that was like way lower quality than we thought, oddly itchy fabric, whatever, like you know what I'm talking about, and so I think having some of that helps people feel much more confident about buying online having some of that helps people feel much more confident about buying online.
Anne McGinty:Speaking about trust and social media and brands how can brands best leverage user generated content to tell their story, while also making sure they maintain quality?
Jacques Spitzer:Totally so. Pretty much every brand unless you're a luxury brand every brand utilizes UGC right, and I think the reality of UGC is you have to ask yourself, on like a primal level, like why does UGC even work? And I think, ultimately, I think there's two reasons. I think one is people. They can see and they can hear, but they can't smell, they can't taste and they can't touch, and so I think UGC is a good starting place for testing how to leverage those other senses in ways that will matter to people, and it's also a really good way to connect with people on social validation around. Oh, you know, I see this ad and this ad and this ad is different people talking about it.
Jacques Spitzer:I think, as human beings, we look to others for social validation. What are other people doing? What are they trying? What's normal? You know?
Jacques Spitzer:I think about the Armstrong colostrum or something like that. I'm getting so many ads for it. It's like oh my gosh. And it's like it went from feeling like oh, they're pushing this really strange new supplement that I've never heard of to like oh, it seems like everyone must be buying it because they can clearly spend a lot on advertising. And wow, like now I'm actively not buying it, meaning I can feel myself going instead of saying I've chosen to potentially buy, I'm like I've chosen now not to buy it. I've seen it so many times not saying I don't want to try it, I'm just saying I can feel myself as a consumer, saying, oh, I'm very aware that this exists and that people are trying it, and so I think UGC gives you that opportunity to build momentum and testimonial and velocity of just like being able to make so many ads. Ag1 did a great job with it too. So many others do as well. I mean, ugc isn't new to anyone, but it's certainly proliferated quite a bit.
Anne McGinty:How do you think it will change with the advancements in AI?
Jacques Spitzer:I honestly don't know how these platforms are going to handle AI content, but my gut, my true gut, tells me that it's not because of the sake of advertising. I think, in general, they're going to need to start to delineate between authenticated content and AI-generated content, much like they already will. If you see an X or something and someone posts an incorrect fact and then they'll fact-check it right below. Or the way that they're trying to force people that are running ads from their influencer accounts to say hashtag ad, and I think there's even FTC guidelines around that. You know what I'm saying. It's like it's moving in a direction where I think that if it is AI generated, it will come with a warning label of sorts, and what that will create in my mind is a circumstance where some brands won't care and they'll still do it.
Jacques Spitzer:Any industry has what we call like black hat strategy, so they'll be like, yeah, I don't care, I'll make an ad with someone else, like I'll take a famous person, I'll use their voice and their likeness and I'll just run it, and if I get slapped on the wrist or shut down, oh well. But I think what it'll do for like established brands, is they won't want to have the good standing of their account be blemished and they will probably steer away from it would be my guess. You know it's like you do not want to get your med account shut down or your youtube account shut down or your ctv account shut down. If you're a brand, that's like relying on it for advertising, and so I I generally think that's probably the direction I'll go, where I think ugc is not going anywhere. I think think AI generated UGC will run into some natural challenges, with people being like I don't know about that.
Anne McGinty:Well, so when you go into a campaign and you don't know how that campaign is going to perform, how do you go about pricing such a project? I mean, you were talking about Dr Squatch and your efforts totally blew that brand up in an incredible way. And then you have other companies where maybe it won't do that, how do you approach pricing?
Jacques Spitzer:Oh man, this is a good question. So there's a whole mathematical equation to all of this. Where you know, I will tell you that I am not a believer in the pay on performance model for so many reasons. The person making the creative are aligned. The problem with it is that as a brand, you want your creative actually to be a more fixed cost, because that's where you can get bigger and bigger wins. When you're bigger and bigger wins cost you more and more, it actually de-incentivizes that campaign to continue to grow.
Jacques Spitzer:Let me give you an example. If we were in a pay on performance model with Dr Squatch when they launched their ad, they probably would be a third of the size that they are right now. And, yes, I would have made a lot of money. But like, it wouldn't be good for them, they would have dragged down the entire system of being able to scale that, especially as your math just gets closer and closer to being profitable. And it's like that one, two, 3%, 4%, 5% is the difference maker. I think a lot of brands engage with creative people in that from the sense of like. Well, it also covers my downside. Like, if it doesn't work, then I don't have to pay, and so I totally get that as well, and so it's actually something I remind our team of quite a bit too. It's like, you know, reality is we have brands that we have invested in. We definitely have brands that we've done a mix of okay, they've paid us cash, but we've also done some equity and those have been great and I love them Like they're great opportunities, right.
Jacques Spitzer:But I think a lot of brands, when they come you and they're looking for this level of production, they're not interested in a partner. They're like I need someone to make me a campaign, right? I mean, you know, they're sometimes they're already at $400 million in sales, $300 million, $100 million, $50 million in sales. They don't want a partner, they don't want a unfixed cost. What they need is they need the predictability that what they pay you to do is going to cost what you say it's going to cost and it's going to show up on time.
Jacques Spitzer:And so for us, it's like we are more expensive because we are pricing in not only the success that we've had but how much we've learned about what doesn't work. You know, we carry that forward and can teach brands so much just in partnering with us, and the reality is is that we have the highest home run percentage of anyone in our league. We have more doubles than anyone else. Too. We probably have the least amount of strikeouts. But, like not everything's always going to work, and there's so many reasons why it could potentially not work Right.
Jacques Spitzer:And there's so many reasons why it does work, and so what we try to do on the front end is ask all the right questions, Like I mentioned earlier. I mean, for every 400 inquiries we get, we sign two clients right. It's like 0.5%, right.
Anne McGinty:Yeah.
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah, and so we're asking a lot of questions on the front end to ensure that we believe we can be successful with someone and we could take on more clients if we were more comfortable with potentially failing more people. But that's just not something I've been comfortable with as a business owner and not really the ethos we have. So we're really trying to say can we be successful with you? Not just do you have enough to pay us to make an ad? It's like do we actually think it'll do what we think it can? And we will reverse that out and say some of our biggest clients are big retail groups or retailers and like their goals may be different, like they're like well, we're trying to grow market share by 1% this year, 2%, 3%. It's not necessarily all direct to consumer. So when you say like advertising working, working is it really depends on what that client is and what they're going for.
Anne McGinty:What have you learned from some other campaigns whether they're yours or somebody else's that maybe don't perform well? What can you say with certainty? Doesn't work.
Jacques Spitzer:People overestimate how much the mission of the company matters, meaning if you're like, hey, people are going to buy this because we're carbon neutral or because we're this or because we're that doesn't work, never works. And I think it goes back to that aha around like people don't buy your, why they buy their own, why Now, I'm not saying it's not part of your story, it doesn't matter, but ultimately it's a distraction from the reason they're ultimately going to be buying it. Right, if you're a soap company that happens to have a mission of like you know you give back a bar of soap for every bar of soap purchased. If you make that the driving force, your ad, you're not actually gonna sell much soap. Like people want to know they're gonna have a great experience and also, by the byproduct, feel good about that like, unless that mission is so tightly wound to like people's why in the first place, it doesn't work.
Jacques Spitzer:I think tom's put everything in the wrong direction because they had this cool mission but ultimately, like cool people started wearing the shoes and it became fashionable and so people got confused because they were like oh, people are buying tom's because they have this great model of giving back and I'm like no people bought these expensive shoes because they thought they look cool in them, like that's why? And they happen to also then tell themselves it's OK, because they've gifted a pair of shoes to someone in need. So that's what we see a lot of.
Anne McGinty:It's just one example of like I mean so many brands that, like, once they start realizing that that's a cool part of their story, but not the reason that someone's buying it, can change their business quite a bit. Gosh, I feel like hearing you speak. I really think that you could teach a college level course.
Jacques Spitzer:I appreciate that.
Anne McGinty:I really do. Thank you If somebody who is really close to you came up to you and said I think I want to start my own business. What advice do you have for aspiring entrepreneurs like that?
Jacques Spitzer:I mean, I definitely started with this, but I would say, follow your curiosities, they'll lead to your passions, or passions can lead to your dreams. I think that that's something that I've become very aware of of. You know, the reality is is that I love what I do. I still love what I do and that is incredibly important because I like, for example, it's not normal, but like this weekend I'm gonna be working, like I got some big stuff on the horizon that we're working on, and I'm like I'm gonna be working this weekend and I'm okay with that, because it's not just work, it's something I'm really enjoying, something I'm building into.
Anne McGinty:You love it.
Jacques Spitzer:Yeah, I see, the other thing I would say to somebody is to ask themselves, like why do they want to start their own thing? I think for me it was like I honestly believe is how I could help people and that served me well. I think where people get in trouble maybe sometimes is they they're like I don't want a boss, and it's like. Truth is like if you grow something, you have all your clients who are like mini bosses and then you have all your employees who are like little mini bosses and like you serve them all. And so I always laugh when someone's like, oh, did you want to be your own boss? I'm like, not really. I'm like now I just feel responsible for way more people and way more things.
Jacques Spitzer:But I would just say that you know, just really tapping into like why do I want to start this business? For a lot of people it is also financially driven. Like I want that upside of like owning it, and I love that. And I totally agree that, like the flexibility of time and the ability to grow your finances are both hugely cool opportunities and they are things that, like you only live once. It is cool to go and do it, whether you succeed or fail, just the fact that you tried is great right.
Anne McGinty:That is so right, Jacques. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It was so fun to have you here.
Jacques Spitzer:And this was great. You were phenomenal at interviewing and I hope everyone subscribes after this.
Anne McGinty:All right, well, have a great day.
Jacques Spitzer:Thanks, Anne.
Anne McGinty:Today's key takeaways Get mentors, Find people who have done what it is that you want to do, and seek advice. This is a repeated one from several guests that I have interviewed. So it works. When naming your business, just keep in mind if you have your name in the name of your company, then people will always expect that you'll be there. In Jacques' words, people don't buy your why. They buy their why of who they are and who they're hoping to become. What is someone saying about themselves? When engaging with your brand, you start pulling on the threads of people's whys and then you can create advertising that is entertaining for that person, the type of marketing that people actually want to see. I can't say it any better than Jacques did. So if you really want the message to stick, just bookmark this episode and you can re-listen to it at any time. When you create advertising that people truly enjoy watching, people consume the product and the brand. Raindrop receives over 400 inquiries a year from new clients and they only accept two. So this leaves a huge opportunity for anyone wanting to enter the ad space and make advertising that is actually entertaining, just like Raindrop.
Anne McGinty:A business partner is kind of like choosing the person you're going to marry because the relationship is very intimate. You'll be dealing with finances, values, employees and the ultimate goals for the future, but if they are the right fit, you'll never regret being too generous to them. This can apply to any partnership. You need people on the team who are creative strategists and who understand the consumer. Remember the consumer is the sun and the products and services are the planets. The brand revolves around the consumer and not the other way around. In Jock's words, how are you going to matter and get attention? How are you going to make it so that your brand lives rent-free in someone's head longer? Finally, follow your curiosities and they will lead you to your passions, and that can lead you to your dreams. That's it for today. I release episodes once a week, so come back and check it out. Have a great day.