Matt is the New Zealand's Olympic surf coach and founder CEO of THE ART OF SURFING, a business that provides high-performance, personalized surf coaching, academy memberships and remote coaching worldwide. He's not just a former professional surfer; Matt's an inspirational figure who's story is as compelling as it is educational.
His programs are designed to help surfers (of all abilities) fulfill their potential by fine-tuning their personal style while mastering technique.
Matt has been featured on the cover of Uno Magazine and New Zealand Surfing Magazine.
You Tube The Art of Surfing
Instagram @TheArtofSurfing
Subscribe on Apple Podcast , Spotify or other major streaming platforms.
If you have a comment, a question you wish I’d asked, an idea for an episode or want to say hi, I'd love to hear from you!
For inquiring guests, please keep in mind that this podcast is for the benefit of listeners and I am not interested in any “puff pieces.” Thank you for understanding!
Feel free to send me a message through my website, or through LinkedIn.
A diary of episodes are posted on Instagram at
How I Built My Small Business.
Matt is the New Zealand's Olympic surf coach and founder CEO of THE ART OF SURFING, a business that provides high-performance, personalized surf coaching, academy memberships and remote coaching worldwide. He's not just a former professional surfer; Matt's an inspirational figure who's story is as compelling as it is educational.
His programs are designed to help surfers (of all abilities) fulfill their potential by fine-tuning their personal style while mastering technique.
Matt has been featured on the cover of Uno Magazine and New Zealand Surfing Magazine.
You Tube The Art of Surfing
Instagram @TheArtofSurfing
Subscribe on Apple Podcast , Spotify or other major streaming platforms.
If you have a comment, a question you wish I’d asked, an idea for an episode or want to say hi, I'd love to hear from you!
For inquiring guests, please keep in mind that this podcast is for the benefit of listeners and I am not interested in any “puff pieces.” Thank you for understanding!
Feel free to send me a message through my website, or through LinkedIn.
A diary of episodes are posted on Instagram at
How I Built My Small Business.
You're right, I was so lucky that I did get cancer. Like that journey for me just changed everything. Like I was about to go work for Billabong, a surf company. Try and climb the corporate ladder, move to Auckland in the middle of a city that doesn't you know, because that's what everybody did.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the 21st episode of how I Built my Small Business, the show that is dedicated to sharing the insight that entrepreneurs have about how to start and grow small businesses. Join us as we unravel the stories behind their entrepreneurial journeys. I'm Ann McGinty, your host, and today we have Matt Scorange chatting with us about his journey to becoming New Zealand's Olympic surfing coach. Matt is the founder CEO of the Art of Surfing, a business that provides high performance, personalized surf coaching, academy memberships and remote coaching worldwide. His programs are designed to help surfers of all abilities fulfill their potential by fine-tuning their personal style while mastering technique. Matt has been featured on the cover of Uno Magazine and New Zealand Surfing Magazine. You can find a link through to his business in the episode's description. Thank you to our listeners for being here today. Matt, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Ann. I appreciate being here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us what your connection is to surfing and how that started?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, I mean, look, surfing's just been a part of my life for forever. Basically, I was really lucky to grow up in a small coastal town here in New Zealand and my parents moved there at a time when, I guess, buying beachfront in New Zealand wasn't like everybody trying to do it and everything was so expensive. So we were fortunate, they bought a beachfront house and we just grew up right on the ocean. So it was really inevitable that we sort of migrated to it. My older brother surfed, all his friends surfed and yeah, you just sort of grow up monkey-sea, monkey-do. So that's how it all began.
Speaker 2:And when you say that you surfed, I mean you were doing this just recreationally after school and that, or did you do it more than that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, look at the start, it was like I was like four, grabbing the foamy and just running out front before, after and sometimes during school. So it was, yeah, we were sort of just yeah, beach kids. And you know, I always sort of say the story Mum used to hang a red towel over the balcony when it was dinnertime, you know. So you'd just look in and food was ready. So we were pretty lucky Good days.
Speaker 2:What a life. So what were you doing before starting the art of surfing?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean, those early days obviously was getting into it. But from there I got into competitive surfing and was sponsored and paid to travel the world for it for quite a while. So that was, I guess, the foundation of, you know, getting involved in the sport at a high performance level and at a competitive level. And so directly before starting the art of surfing I was actually recovering or had just been fighting cancer for two years. So that journey sort of is important to always bring in because it really helped me sort of take a step back from where I was at, sort of look at what I really wanted to do with my life and, honestly, during that period was where I really decided I wanted to be a surf coach and launch a surf coaching business in New Zealand.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that's amazing. When you were recovering, how did you decide to actually start a surf coaching business?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So before getting sick I stopped competing professionally. I was still paid what we call free surfer. I was traveling the world and at that time a good friend of mine I was living on the Gold Coast at the time qualified for the big league. So he made the world tour and he asked me to be his caddy and filmer for a year. So that involved traveling with him to all the major events and that was the year that I really started to learn about what it takes to be an elite athlete and a professional and watching, you know, a Cali Slater and all the top guys and girls do their thing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it opened my eyes, because in New Zealand we were really just, we just didn't have access to that. We didn't see that sort of professionalism in the sport. It was very early days to it even being accepted to be a career path. So, yeah, I saw what was happening. I just thought, man, this would be so cool to have this information back here in New Zealand or these sort of training modalities or this high performance sort of information feeding back to New Zealand. And I was like, oh, one day I think I might look into that.
Speaker 1:And then I was working with his name was Josh, and at the end of the year I went home for just a couple of months and I was supposed to go back and work for him and that's when I fell sick. So that gave me that opportunity, as I said, to sort of focus on myself. And then when I got through the illness, I was like, well, what do I really want to do? I don't want to go and just climb some corporate ladder or be a builder Like I'm not passionate about that. I've realised how short life could be. So yeah, just wait for it.
Speaker 2:That's amazing that you had that experience. I mean, it's not amazing that you got sick, but just that it had such an impact on your life. So once you decided to go for it, what steps did you take next?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was in Bali for a couple of months just before I decided to come home and launch the business. I was still sort of just working on myself and recovering and I went up there with my partner to have some time to think about what we wanted to do with our life. Again, that's where I really formulated the plan and I just remember even the simplest things like what am I going to call this business? Like you know, is it going to be something like New Zealand high performance surfing? And I was like no, it's cheesy. So the next steps were just so simple in the process of like what am I going to call this? You know what would be the core products or services I do? Where would I be based? And now there's so much business coaching out there and so much information that I think a lot of people would be a lot more understanding of the steps to start up a new business.
Speaker 1:But at the time I had no idea and I just came up with a name. I started an Instagram page and I got home to New Zealand and just tapped a few of the local top surfers in my area on the shoulder and said, hey, do you want to do some training, and I wasn't charging at first, I just wanted to help the kids. That was generally the core of what I wanted to do was help our kids be better. And from there word spread and it just sort of one thing led to another.
Speaker 2:How long did that take, offering your services for free, before the business started to bring in some sort of income?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it actually happened really fast. So I was lucky, I was in a position where I didn't need to make a lot of money, you know, just recovering. I was still just staying with my mum and dad at the time again, just still working on myself. And so I was able to take it slow in the sense that I didn't have to, like, raise all this capital and invest in all this products or, you know, surfboards and wetsuits and things like that. I just was able to kind of test the waters and see how it went. And so that's how I started. But, honestly, within three weeks, like the whole country knew I was coaching, I was going to call from all around the country, from different parents, and you know, hey, we're coming to my hometown, fongmata, because there's national surf comps out there over the summer. You know, would you train our kid during the event? And so before I knew it, I was like, oh shoot, how much do I even charge? Like what's fair and reasonable? And yeah, so it was a fast learning curve, yeah.
Speaker 2:So three weeks. How did so many people hear about you?
Speaker 1:Well, I was very lucky in my hometown I was coaching, like the top New Zealand female and male junior surfers. They were already successful, talented young kids and I come from an area where a lot of good surfers grow up. So I had relationships with them already. I was already, I guess you could say, a bit of a mentor to them already and I just sort of formulaised it to be a bit more that hey, I am offering the service beyond just being available as someone that cares about the younger kids in the area and yeah, that would spread pretty quick and they were doing really well. So they were very helpful in sort of recommending me around to other people, or their parents were anyway.
Speaker 2:And did you have any mentors along the way? I mean, I know that you said you were traveling with the surfer, josh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So did he, or did his coach or anyone that you met in that circuit help you along the way with this, or you just kind of watched and sponged?
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much watched and sponged the initial stages. I had no teaching training or coaching training on a broader spectrum, let alone actually had very much training myself from surf specific coaches. Because I guess, to give the listeners an idea like there was no such thing as a professional surf coach in New Zealand, no one was doing that. It did not exist In Australia. There was like two to three guys doing it and they were employed by surf in Australia and America maybe a few more. So there was no proven road. There wasn't like hey, there's all this business out there.
Speaker 1:So I hadn't been coached, I hadn't gone over to all the entrained with all these top coaches or the two or three top coaches, because they were very sort of expensive for the experience to get over from New Zealand and fairly inaccessible.
Speaker 1:So I just kind of looked at it like well, the year with Josh you touched on that I was watching from the sidelines and seeing what a lot of other coaches were doing and I was able to kind of see a lot of things technically that I thought would help our surfers back here in New Zealand. So that's where I really cut my teeth was having a really good eye for the finer technique of surfing and that was kind of the core service I launched when I did get back to NZ and then a little bit later, once I was up and running, almost a year into the business, I did connect with a really great Australian coach. He was also a friend, a guy called Samberman, and him and I worked together for a couple of years running camps and courses both in Australia and New Zealand, and he taught me a lot. He was very helpful for my journey.
Speaker 1:So, with all of these trips and travels and different surfers, different levels, that you've worked with what has been a really memorable success story, there's a lot and you've got your high performance athletes and then you sort of everyday clients that have these moments in their surfing journey that's not on the scale of like winning this big comp, but also just so important to them.
Speaker 1:But I think, if I go right back to the start, a girl, ella Williams, who was literally one of the very first two people I coached her successor and I say her because I look at it like you always help people along the way, but it's their journey and she went on to win a world title. So that was amazing to watch this young you know, at the time 13 year old girl who I remember coaching her and she really didn't have great competition, knowledge and strategy Go all the way to be a world champ you know, a junior world champ. So things like that definitely gave me belief in what I was doing and again, it was her out there doing it. I wasn't working with it at that event at that time, but just to have been a part of her journey was something that really inspired me to keep doing what I was doing.
Speaker 2:So you know, being a surfer yourself and then working in the business of surfing how does that work for you, Like? How do you like that balance? I know some people don't like to mix passion with business, but I also know several people who really do, so how has it been for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a juggle. You have to look after yourself at the end of the day and you can get burned out. You know you're at the beach a lot and you're watching the surf a lot, and I mean, I just was in Taranaki this weekend for a course and the waves were incredible on the Sunday and I was on the beach filming and coaching these kids. But I always just remind myself, well, it's better than being in an office right now, anyway, and I'm loving what I'm doing. And then, on top of that, I always go for a surf when it's finished anyway.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, sometimes you're a bit tired, but you know you make sure you do it. But yeah, I mean, look, I was just in Puerto Rico with the New Zealand team for the Olympic qualifier event and which is the, I say, world Games, and I had two surfs in over two weeks and some really average conditions, because you're there to do a job and you're focusing on the team and you know, sometimes you sort of think, well, this is crazy. I'm in Puerto Rico, where there's all these beautiful waves, and I've always wanted to come here and all of a sudden you're not even in the water and it's. Yeah, it can feel sometimes a bit off, but then you wouldn't be in Puerto Rico anyway If you weren't doing this job. You wouldn't be supporting these athletes in this Olympic dream, you know.
Speaker 2:So Totally yes.
Speaker 1:You just gotta look at the pros.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean definitely the surf culture and your coaching approach. How do you think that it's impacted it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the culture has been pretty funny to watch from, like my perspective, over the last 13 years because when I started like I literally had people say to me again for the listeners, like I never leaned into the Luntasurf stuff, I was always high performance. I really started with the elite and I worked my way backwards down to developing younger athletes and then moving eventually into sort of more everyday adult recreational surfers. So that culture when I started like there was no way a 35 year old average Joe was going to be seen at the beach being filmed and coached Like their mates would have given them so much crap. And I had guys texting me like, hey, would you coach me? But can we go to this remote beach? We're, like you know, around the corner.
Speaker 1:Because they wanted it, everyone wanted to improve. You know you think of golf and who doesn't go get a golf lesson Any age? You know you want to play with your mates on a Sunday and not be the one that has to buy the rounds of beers at the end of the game, whatever the reason is. People want to be better and the culture has really changed from like not accepting coaching to be OK to do unless you are pro surfer to every man and their dog and every school out there, even very lonesome schools trying to offer all this like advanced video analysis, review, high performance training. So yeah, it's gone 180. I'm just really stoked. I was there from the beginning to you know sort of say, say I've been doing it the whole time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I still think it's kind of the beginning. I mean, I'm in California and our area isn't fantastic, you know, it's not like Southern California has better waves and water temp, but the type of coaching that you're offering is not really available around us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear, I hear. That's why I launched a lot of my online products and my remote coaching, because I would get American clients and clients from around the world saying, well, we came across what you're doing. No one does it here in like the whole of New York, for example. And I was like, ok, and so I started coaching one guy online and next thing, I've got 15 New Yorkers signed up to my programs. In fact, I got out Salvador in a couple of weeks and they're all from New York that are coming to a retreat I'm running there.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it does surprise me, but there's a lot of people out there trying to do it. But I guess, without trying to sound like how it will sound, there's not a lot of people that truly, truly, truly know the technical information and how to deliver it. And you know, you're always looking behind you a little bit as a business owner. Right, say, you start a yoga studio in your local community and then one pops up down the road. At first you get a little bit like, hey, this is my area, but in business you never look backwards to other people, you're always looking to how you can be ahead of the curve. So I feel like a lot of people are trying it now. There's a lot of local surf schools offering at least development programs with some light video analysis. But what I've always backed myself on is just knowing I can truly change people's surfing technique and their understanding of how to improve. And when you just prove it over and over and your clients leave happy, that word kind of it goes global.
Speaker 2:And you've got the experience of having been a competitive surfer and also watch the top professional surfer get this type of training, so that really sets you apart.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:How does the process even work with remote coaching?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things I've always tried to do was be sort of ahead of that curve, but particularly with technology. Like I've always been a bit of a tech geek in my own passions, whatever that might be I was always like editing surf clips when I was young and looking for the latest like editing software and so on. So you know, the year that I worked with Josh, I was his filmer, I was editing his clips.
Speaker 2:Is this, josh Kerr?
Speaker 1:Yeah, josh Kerr, yeah, sorry, yeah, so you know he's obviously one of the world's greatest surfers, particularly from an entertainment perspective, like his aerial surfing, his progressional surfing was just incredible. So we built a website. You know this is 2009. Instagram was not around. You know. We created content, we uploaded it through YouTube, which we embedded on the website and, like, he put me in charge of organizing all of this. Right, he's a pro surfer, he wants to train and surf.
Speaker 1:So I was filming, I was editing, I was building websites, I was marketing it as best I could at the time with like Facebook and trying to pump it out there, and we actually got voted at one of the end of year what they call surf Apollo Awards, as the number one pro surfer website.
Speaker 1:So that gave me the confidence to be like, right technology and all this stuff is what really. You know, you've got a sound top of and back to the remote coaching. I just always wanted to be able to have a service that people could use from all around the world, and so I was looking for that and a particular app came up and essentially it's kind of like Facebook a video analysis sort of service, file sharing, a community like all in one and so I can utilize that to coach people abroad. And they sign up for like three, six months sort of year long coaching programs where they send footage, I review it, some of the high performance kids I coach around the country and globally it's more of like a mentor role where you know I'm helping with the competitions, reviewing their heats, helping with equipment, helping them decide on what comps to go and where, and just sponsorship stuff as well. So yeah, it's sort of like on their coach in their pocket kind of thing.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, and so they, I assume, need to employ or have a friend just sit on the sand and film them.
Speaker 1:Yeah luckily, most kids parents pretty passionate now and film them a lot. And then a lot of kids are in school programs where they might have like a surf academy and they have a teacher that films them and then, yeah, there's all the sort of follow cams out there now with the technology too.
Speaker 2:So how many students do you work with each year? I mean between the academy and remote coaching and the squads and the camps.
Speaker 1:Probably too many. To be fair, it's probably my biggest issue. Yeah, honestly, thousands. I mean I have 80 kids a week I work with at my local before and after school programs.
Speaker 2:That's incredible.
Speaker 1:You know we have weekend courses around the country with 10 to 15 kids. The academy has hundreds and hundreds of members. My remote coaching is a little bit more exclusive because it's a little bit more hands on. So anywhere from 30 to 50 clients that I'm managing in there at any one time. So yeah, it's at times I'm probably wearing too many hats and trying to do too much.
Speaker 1:But you know, when you're growing a business you've got to try new things and you can't try new things unless you keep the things that are working going as well from a, like you know, feeding the business perspective. And at times you're just going to be stretched. And particularly when you're a small business and a very unique type of business, how I can't just go and be put an add up for like, hey, I need five apprentice builders tomorrow. You know, like you, just the skill sets can't find those people so easily, you know. So a lot of the work has been done by myself and my wife just a small family business. But yeah, that's where Academy, online training, remote coaching you can leverage your time a lot more and that's that's why I've leaned into that over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2:And what is your vision for the future of the business Like do you want to see this thing go with unlimited growth and franchise around the world, or do you just want to make enough to support a specific lifestyle?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have been offered to franchise all around the world and I've turned it down at this point. I really wanted to get to a point where I felt like I've built the brand, the reputation and the credibility to exactly where I could and I feel like I've done the best I can, which I guess you're always going to think I could do more, I could do better, but I'm still on that journey. You know, I'm still growing as a coach. You know I was fortunate to do one Olympic cycle and hopefully we'll be there on another one, and I just want to sort of not let any other franchisees out there maybe change the perspective of what the art of surfing is known to be globally.
Speaker 1:While I leverage more of the online products, I have to create more passive income. So the answer right now is to support a specific lifestyle. I want to, over the next three years, really grow the remote coaching and the academy side probably be less available at a high performance level in person and recreationally for myself, and then we would like to live in the tropics in Bali most of the year and be based from that. We already do two or three months a year there every year, but we like to lift that to about six.
Speaker 2:So support a lifestyle would be the probably the number one answer and so, ideally, what you would do six months Bali, six months New Zealand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, about that yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that's the dream. Yeah, we're trying to get to six months New, zealand, six months California.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty good dream.
Speaker 2:So how long has it been that you've been running the business now?
Speaker 1:Coming up about 13 years full time.
Speaker 2:And in that journey, what mistakes have you made and what lessons have you learned from them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, continuing on from what I was saying, just trying to do too much sometimes and say yes to too many people. So that was probably the biggest lessons. I mean I've had a lot of mistakes, you know, when it comes to smaller stuff like apps or technology or kind of going down the road of the business like oh, that's not what I enjoy. But I think on a more broader scale, that's outside of the specific side of what I do just your time, you know. The biggest lesson I've learned is how valuable your time is as the primary, like if you're the person that has all the core knowledge to the business and leveraging other people to do the stuff that maybe you don't like doing or anyone could do, or you know someone that's good in that area, whether it's social media or marketing or whatever that might be.
Speaker 1:I've spent a lot of time trying to learn everything. I think it's good in the early days. I mean, it's like someone that buys a supermarket. They get made to work in all the different areas so they understand the business, like that is business and I'm grateful to have had that sort of interest and being intrigued to learn, like see if I can do Facebook ads, see if I can do the YouTube channel, see if I can do TikTok. No, I don't like TikTok. I'll go over here.
Speaker 1:You know, so it's like You're always learning and then and then you're like I could just pay this person to do it. They do it really good and then I can go make my money here, right? So my mistake was probably trying to do that for too long, learning when to move on and secondly, just saying you stood too many people in terms of jobs and courses and different contracts and then all of a sudden, when you're running it, you just pulled so thin and other areas of your business can be a little bit neglected.
Speaker 2:Being so busy is mostly a positive thing with a little bit of growing pain, for sure, yeah, so have you had to continue marketing to grow.
Speaker 1:I have currently turned off all my paid marketing because I'm at capacity anyway with where I am at running it, but, yeah, over the years, really leveraged. Obviously, like local people, you know your social channels, but I think one of the key things that I've learned when it comes to marketing is you know everyone's striving to have this sort of like aesthetically beautiful looking Instagram page with palm trees and beaches. You know, and hey, look at us up here in Bali running this retreat, which is necessary and you do need to have that type of content. But the core content that, particularly in any coaching, you know doesn't have to be sport, could be business coaching and personal coaching is just putting out content that already helps your clients to improve themselves and whatever that is. And soon as I turned on that, because I was really protective of, I guess, my IP and my techniques and I didn't want other people to sort of steal them, yeah, steal them, but learn what I was doing and then try and do it elsewhere.
Speaker 1:Like you say, steal it. That was not the right mindset, you know, soon as I switched and I was like you know what? Like, put it out there, everyone can have a go, they can try their best. But I'm me back yourself that people like you for who you are, and I did decide to launch out and give away some of that information, whether it was a 15 second reel or a 10 minute YouTube video, or sometimes it was like an hour seminar that I was giving away online for free. Man, the business just took off, you know, and people start to go wow, if I can learn this much from him online or here or there, like imagine what I could get out of a four, six months from my coaching program, or a year in his academy, or an impersonal lesson, or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:That sounds like such a great way to organically grow the business too. I mean, you're helping people and then it's helping your business, so yeah, definitely. That's amazing. So do you have an off season?
Speaker 1:No, not really. Yeah, our off season in New Zealand, of course, is winter, which is when I go to Bali. So that is definitely the time of year where I probably have the best balanced lifestyle. You know, in New Zealand I'm either traveling around the country, traveling overseas whether it be with New Zealand teams or things like that or retreats. But when we go to Bali for two months, I take the whole family and I still run my online sector and I might run one or two retreats up there, but I don't work in person because you know, to fully work up there you need visas and stuff which you can get if you want to go down that road, but we're only visiting for a little bit of time.
Speaker 1:So I'm always respectful of that and I do my online work at that time. But that gives me a lot more time to enjoy Bali with the family and you know my boys are getting into surfing and just. I've always wanted to create the business into a position where we can travel the world as a family to the major jobs I want to take, but also the online side, the passive income side, supports us to be where we want to be. So the business is not reliant or maybe it's only 20% reliant on having to be some location at some specific time and the rest of that 80% of time you can be where you want and doing the work at a time you want, and that's always been the dream.
Speaker 2:That is such a good dream. We've done similar extended traveling with our kids and people always ask us this question, so I'm curious what you'll say. How do you handle the kids and schooling?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we at this point, as I say, I've only pulled them out for three months max and my personal opinion is that the values you know they get from that, what they learn, that, the school of life, it's just honestly like you cannot put a price on it. We spent like a month in a remote part of Sambawa, not last year, the year before, with some training I was doing, and I mean my boys learned about so much like the Muslim culture, you know. They were like, well, what's this? And then like the seaweed farming out front, and what we did is we made our boy, who was six at the time, we got him to do all of his studies on these different things, so he'd sit there and Google about seaweed farming and we ended up meeting the local people. That took him to the seaweed factory.
Speaker 1:And what you can learn in books, in the classroom, you can learn out there, living and learning. And we still put them in school for the rest of the year. So it's like they're getting the best of both worlds. And the correspondence books these days are incredible. You know they're doing a page a day of their science and their mass and their writing. Honestly, they come back and they're up to speed every time.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Yeah we have felt the same way. It's changing a little bit now that our kids are getting older and we're trying to figure out how to keep doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look for the listeners. I've got a nine year old and six year old, so it's early days. So you know, look intermediate school and high school. It will present different challenges there and we may look to put them in international schools in Bali. You know that would be the answer if we did long, longer term time there. I wouldn't keep them out for six months if they're in the like school exams phase and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm so inspired to just like hearing you say it's making me want to do more of it yeah totally so how do you stay updated on latest trends and technologies and surfing and coaching?
Speaker 1:You've just got to look outside the sport really to. I've always looked a lot to golf particularly. I think golf's like just a leading sport with coaching and technologies and there's just so much such a large market there. There's all sorts of technology they try and utilize and obviously AI is just VR is coming into it now. So who knows what's going to be next in the future of like sports simulation and training?
Speaker 1:For me personally, thus far, the video analysis. I was the first person to be really doing it here in New Zealand and a bit of a unique story, I actually found this app online right back in the day and my Australian friend came over and I showed him it and he took it back to the surfing Australia organization because they were using this sort of outdated, clunky windows you know only worked on laptops kind of thing, and I had an iPad at the beach with an app, you know, and it was like they're like wow, that's what we've got to do. So even at times have been ahead of the curve of some of these bigger nations and what they're doing just by continuing to literally just search. I jumped the app store every now and then just chuck in like video analysis or like sports coaching, and just see what new things pop up. And even if I'm happy with what I've got, I just look to see what else is out there, and every now and then you just find something better.
Speaker 2:Have you ever thought about making your own surfing app and incorporating AI that you train with your surfing? Science and technique.
Speaker 1:I've sort of looked down that road and for me it's more about, okay, utilize apps already built that help you create a better business or product or service. Because I feel, like everyone that has gone out and spent all this money on building apps and research, their apps end up getting outdated eventually and then they move on and some may make some good money in the interim don't get me wrong. But to maintain and keep developing as technology advances you kind of have to have a bit of a big tech company sort of support. So yeah, it's constant.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So how did you learn business? Did you study this?
Speaker 1:No, honestly, you just got to put yourself out there. I mean, I've only said this a few times to people, but you've got to fake it until you make it. I know that's such a sort of cliche saying, but I had zero idea about business. I mean, look, I wasn't a super dummy. I did okay at school and you know, smart enough to kind of like manage myself with my sponsors as an athlete and I learned how to like keep a sponsor and what they needed and, like you, just everything adds up to be like okay.
Speaker 1:That's the skill set that you could use over here, and I'm sure you've interviewed many others that have been in a totally different industry before they moved into their entrepreneur and they took across all the stuff they never thought would have related to some other, completely different business. But there's always a area, in a way, that your skill set and that knowledge aligns, and for me, that was just this ongoing journey of using life's learnings. Like I had some other jobs and I was in real estate for a little while, which I did honestly just to learn. I wanted to learn people, skills and marketing and sales and how to maybe hustle a little harder, and I took a lot away from that. That really helped me just learn so much about people skills and business skills in that regard.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. It looks like you run a pretty tight shift. And also, do you have so many different projects within your business that are happening. It's, it's impressive.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you yeah.
Speaker 2:You didn't have any training on that.
Speaker 1:No, I mean just sorry. One last thing is I always look to use other people, though, in that area. So when it came to building my online subscription membership, which is the Arts Heaven Academy, I went and found who I thought within New Zealand was one of the best sort of like marketing organizations that help people build it. I paid them some bloody good money, we went through the process and they helped me build out that service. Similarly, I had a guy in New York that was involved in a bunch of tech startups, but ultimately he helped me build out my remote coaching offerings and how we'd position them, and so through my coaching, I meet all these people that I coach and then they just so happen to be, oh, I'm a designer. This guy was a designer for Apple. It was like, well, there you go. Or this guy's, hey, I've run a membership startup company. And it's like, wow, okay, so you start to just go, let's collaborate and give them some free coaching. They'll give you some free coaching, yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice, that's awesome. What a good way to do business. So if your kids were like, hey, dad, I want to be a business owner, what advice are you going to give them?
Speaker 1:Don't listen to everyone. I had so many people just questioning what I was doing and saying that I couldn't do it. Like uncles, friends, really, yeah for sure. Not directly Like you shouldn't do this, you can't do it, but just insinuating like so what are you going to do when you need to get a real job? Or like, okay, so what are you going to do?
Speaker 1:You know, when you finish this hobby, when you finish with your surfing, like chasing waves around the world, like everyone just thought I was doing it to make a few thousand dollars so I could go on my next surf trip? And honestly, everyone doubted me, everyone. And even when I was like three, four years in, I'd go to say you know Auckland and run like a course, and some dad would come in to pick his daughter after it who's an architect, and he'd look at you in a suit and go so what do you do for a real job, mate? You know? And it was just like people looked at you like you weren't doing something. That was sort of validated because no one was doing it.
Speaker 2:That's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Well, no one was doing it and coach surfing was still kind of like perceived in a certain way it wasn't an Olympic sport yet and that's why I said earlier like I'm so pleased yes, surf coaching is in its beginnings, still from probably the broader scale. But to have been there 100% from the beginning within New Zealand and from very early days, just from even a global perspective, to see the transition and to now walk into those beaches and people come up to you and be like, how is the Olympics now versus so what do you do for a real job, you know to have been involved in that change has been yeah, it's so for my kids, maybe they come up with some idea. That would be seeing the way mine was at the time. You know, and you can't listen to people, it's if you listened to everybody. Everyone's just going to fall in line and do the same stuff.
Speaker 2:Is this a bit of that tall poppy syndrome?
Speaker 1:100%. Yeah, for sure, At the early days I think I've had a lot of support, though I don't want to say everyone was against me. I just say people didn't believe there was an end result that could be a successful or even slightly successful business or career path. Yeah, because it wasn't proven. Everyone liked what I was doing. They thought it was cool, they were grateful that I was helping their kids, but no one saw the end goal. You know that I was seeing, so yeah, and you mentioned the Olympics.
Speaker 2:So how did you even become the Olympic surf coach?
Speaker 1:Well, we were fortunate here in New Zealand that we had to increase the way athletes qualify for the Olympics. I was lucky enough to be working with them at the time through New Zealand side contract to surf in New Zealand to run their high performance program and their campaigns for their world junior and world open teams that go to the world champs, and so we were working together at these camps into athletes qualified and one of them happened to be Ella, who was the young girl from Fonga, yeah, so she's been there since the sort of beginning of what I did and to see her again, even at that level, go to the Olympics was cool. And then, yeah, so we had another guy, billy, qualify, and I was, I guess, the guy that was doing the coaching. Got the job, yeah, yeah, but you know I had to apply.
Speaker 1:There was other international, australian, american coaches that put applications in and then the NZOC New Zealand Olympic Committee looked at all of the applications and they've explained to me. They looked at what I was doing in the country and they wanted all of my learnings and experience to come back into the next Olympic cycle. So some Australian coach who may have a better coaching credibility or save more success with high performance athletes at an elite level, but they wanted that coach to come back and put back into what New Zealand is trying to do.
Speaker 2:Like, keep loyalty to the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I'd like to think so.
Speaker 2:So if you could go back and talk to yourself in your early 20s, what would you say?
Speaker 1:There's probably, in all honesty, not a lot of things I could say to myself now that I wasn't already probably going to do anyway. So what I mean by that is it would be similar to what I would say to my kids, like, just don't listen to anyone, but I already wasn't. Look, you know, to circle back, I was, and you said it, it was. You're right, I was so lucky that I did get cancer. Like that journey for me just changed everything. Like I was about to go work for Billabong, a surf company.
Speaker 1:Try and climb the corporate ladder, move to Auckland in the middle of a city that doesn't you know, because that's what everybody did when they retired. They went into the surf industry. You didn't have other qualifications to go out there and do other things. So, yeah, and then I had that journey with cancer and my health and I just realized like no, that's not what I want, that's not what I'm passionate about. So I would tell my younger 20 year old self to just don't conform, don't feel like you have to do what everybody else is doing and start something you're passionate about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you've had such an incredible journey. I love your business. I have major jealousy at just like your ability to go around the world to these magical places and see the most incredible surf.
Speaker 1:To just be there and in that energy. Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:So good, yeah Well, thank you so much for coming on this show and sharing your story with all of us.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate being here. It was fun.
Speaker 2:You've made it to the end. Thanks for being here. Before I get to the key takeaways, if you haven't yet, please take a moment to rate the show and leave an honest review to help me reach more listeners ears On Apple Podcast. Scroll down past the episodes to get to the Write a Review button. Now here are today's key takeaways.
Speaker 2:Take a step back and look at what you want to do with your life. Life is short, so prioritize your health and well-being and pursue your passions. When you're first getting started in business, offer your services, but don't charge it. First, test the waters and prove your concept In every job or life experience. Observe and learn from those around you who have skills and knowledge that you don't. Then absorb and integrate those insights into your own skill set and understanding. It can feel threatening when a similar business is operating nearby, but don't look backwards to your competition. Instead, look into how you can be ahead of the curve and set yourself apart. When you're growing a business, you have to try new things and at times you will be stretched. But remember you don't have to say yes to everyone and if you do, you may end up being poured too thin.
Speaker 2:Some of the most effective marketing, particularly for coaching, is to put out content that already helps your clients. Give out some of that information online for free and that can help your business take off. Back yourself that people like you for who you are. If you haven't checked out the App Store recently, there might just be an app waiting to streamline or enhance your business operations. Search through it and explore if there's an app that could be a better fit for you than what you're currently using. Through business and life, you will meet people with skillsets from which you could benefit, offer up a trade and see if there is an opportunity for collaboration. Don't listen to everyone, especially those around you who doubt you, and, lastly, don't conform. Don't feel like you have to do what everybody else is doing in order to be successful. That's it for today. I release episodes once a week, so come back and check it out. Have a great day.